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What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

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Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#71

Post by NikolaNovak »

bondarchuk wrote: post #68
NikolaNovak wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes they can be. A lot of times people without IFR enter clouds because situation is worsening - so after a few minutes, cloud/fog might reach ground, or you might fly to a place where clouds are lower. Other times, you get your airplane in a situation / position where, when you do exit a cloud, you don't have enough altitude to correct it. Some airplanes have various types of spins you can enter that you canno…

Even with all these explanations I'm still totally unclear on how flying in a cloud gets you an 86% fatality rate. It's difficult and counterintuitive, things can go wrong with instruments etc.., but what exactly makes a crash a near-certainty in this situation?

Hmm, if you've already read the previous and especially parallel posts in this thread, I'm not sure what other examples or analogies to use, so somebody else would need to try another tack. Basically - people's sense of direction actively lies to them, extremely strongly, so they do the wrong thing, and they crash the airplane, virtually without fail.

As per my previous analogy - people without explicit driving instructions and practice (you must build actual reflexes, not just theoretical knowledge!), will overwhelmingly do the wrong thing when they understeer or oversteer a car - a machine they may operate daily otherwise and still have full sensory inputs. Flying in clouds / entering a spin is exponentially more complex and counterintuitive and punishing :If that still feels incredibly unlikely, and please take this in the kindest possible way as an illustration and not personal :), that's exactly what kills people! The profound and pervasive unawareness of how dangerous the situation is, and just how much your body senses will lie to you and how much following them will kill you.

(fwiw, note it's not "sum total of all people entering the clouds results in 86% fatality rate", of course - airlines go through clouds hundreds if not thousands of times around the world daily! But for untrained people to enter a cloud, especially inadvertently / unplanned, IS deadly)

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#72

Post by grepfru_it »

quasarj wrote: post #44
blt wrote: post #31

> You don’t need a license to operate these aircraft because they’re easy enough to fly that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) doesn’t see the need to regulate them. I don't think that's the reason. The reason is that they are unlikely to hurt anyone besides the pilot in a crash. They can have an engine failure, stall-spin, or fly into a cloud just as readily as any other plane. Those are the biggest risks fo…

Flying into a cloud is a big risk? They're everywhere!

One of the biggest risks of flying into a cloud while vfr is that you do not know what is on the other side when you come out. Could very well experience a mid-air collision, even though the odds seem low it’s a lot more probable than you think

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#73

Post by grepfru_it »

Unpopular opinion but technically correct answer: you can fly any plane without a pilots license.

In fact I just saw a Quora question with this exact question and the answer came from a 60 year old pilot that has been flying without a license for 30 years.

If you never fly out of a major airport where an FAA inspector can ramp check you, who will ever find out?

Please don’t do this.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#74

Post by Invictus0 »

dylan604 wrote: post #57
pixelatedindex wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were a kid, I’d be livid to not get free flights. I always wanted to fly - I think the first time I ever got on a plane was in high school and I remember being glued to the window almost the whole time. Incidentally, I just learned about ultralights not needing a license last week and there are some really affordable ones for like 16K: http://www.uflyit.com/aerolite103main.htm There are more manufacturers here:…

If your kid discovered a crashed something and the people that operated the something didn't know it was missing gave your kid free time to fly/ride a thing just like it, would you let your kid go? But of course the kid was upset.

If your kid discovered a crashed rental car and the people that operated the rental car didn't know it was missing gave your kid free time to ride a rental car just like it, would you let your kid go?

Amazing how people today let fear get in the way of enjoying life

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#75

Post by akavel »

teraflop wrote: post #66
shakow wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a stupid question, but why can't these lost pilots just maintain their attitude indicator in the middle, fly straight, grit their teeth, and wait to get out of the cloud?

It's not really a stupid question. In theory, you could do that, but it's not that easy in practice. First of all, the attitude indicator alone is not sufficient -- you need to pay attention to the entire instrument panel, including airspeed, vertical speed and turn coordinator, and mentally synthesize a complete picture of how the aircraft is moving. Moreover, anybody who can fly a plane should intellectually know h…

Quoting from the Wikipedia article:

[Coriolis illusion] can produce an overpowering sensation that the aircraft is rolling, pitching, and yawing all at the same time, which can be compared with the sensation of rolling down a hillside.

Oh, wow, ok, that sounds strong indeed... I'm starting to understand it would be super hard, while vividly feeling like I'm rolling down a hillside, to try and tell myself: "oh, I just need to focus on the instruments, and trust them..."

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#76

Post by Baeocystin »

Invictus0 wrote: post #74
dylan604 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your kid discovered a crashed something and the people that operated the something didn't know it was missing gave your kid free time to fly/ride a thing just like it, would you let your kid go? But of course the kid was upset.

If your kid discovered a crashed rental car and the people that operated the rental car didn't know it was missing gave your kid free time to ride a rental car just like it, would you let your kid go? Amazing how people today let fear get in the way of enjoying life

Depends whether they were the ones responsible for ditching and not reporting. A well-run place that rented to an idiot is one thing, a slapdash place that plays loose with the rules another.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#77

Post by grepfru_it »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #55
dylan604 wrote: post #52

When I was in elementary school (waaaay back in the 80s) I lived way out in BFE where there was a lot of undeveloped land around the school. One weekend, one of the students discovered a crashed ultralight in the fields surrounding the school, and then told his parents about it. There was an company a few miles from the school off of the highway that sold/rented ultralights, so the parents called them about it. Appar…

If I were a kid, I’d be livid to not get free flights. I always wanted to fly - I think the first time I ever got on a plane was in high school and I remember being glued to the window almost the whole time. Incidentally, I just learned about ultralights not needing a license last week and there are some really affordable ones for like 16K: http://www.uflyit.com/aerolite103main.htm There are more manufacturers here:…

I would gladly build my own cub and fly it. You could probably repair it mid flight haha!

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#78

Post by userbinator »

grepfru_it wrote: post #73

Unpopular opinion but technically correct answer: you can fly any plane without a pilots license. In fact I just saw a Quora question with this exact question and the answer came from a 60 year old pilot that has been flying without a license for 30 years. If you never fly out of a major airport where an FAA inspector can ramp check you, who will ever find out? Please don’t do this.

and the answer came from a 60 year old pilot that has been flying without a license for 30 years.

More precisely, someone who claims to be one online.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#79

Post by serf »

userbinator wrote: post #78
grepfru_it wrote: post #73

Unpopular opinion but technically correct answer: you can fly any plane without a pilots license. In fact I just saw a Quora question with this exact question and the answer came from a 60 year old pilot that has been flying without a license for 30 years. If you never fly out of a major airport where an FAA inspector can ramp check you, who will ever find out? Please don’t do this.

and the answer came from a 60 year old pilot that has been flying without a license for 30 years. More precisely, someone who claims to be one online.

it's not an uncommon story, so I don't really doubt it.

lots of history with older crop-duster or other utility-craft pilots who sort of passively ignore the FAA.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#80

Post by grepfru_it »

userbinator wrote: post #78
grepfru_it wrote: post #73

Unpopular opinion but technically correct answer: you can fly any plane without a pilots license. In fact I just saw a Quora question with this exact question and the answer came from a 60 year old pilot that has been flying without a license for 30 years. If you never fly out of a major airport where an FAA inspector can ramp check you, who will ever find out? Please don’t do this.

and the answer came from a 60 year old pilot that has been flying without a license for 30 years. More precisely, someone who claims to be one online.

Think about people in the Midwest who flew with their parents and inherited a Cessna. They may have never gotten a pilots license but racked up thousands of hours. They take off and land on a grass strip or their own private paved runway. Why (in their eyes) would they need a license?

How about a kid who loved planes but parents did not or could not afford lessons. They found simulators and cut their teeth on 20 years of Microsoft flight simulator and x-plane. Then they fly with some friends who comment on their remarkable flying skills. This emboldened pilot continues to fly without a license without an incident. Why (in their eyes) would they need a license?

How about a drug runner in Columbia or Mexico who learned to fly on his or her own to make $10k per flight. Mastering extreme short field takeoffs/landings and abandoning the plane afterwards. Why (in their eyes) would they need a license?

Please do not do this.

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