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Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
151–160 of 282 posts
Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where are the tools that carved the high relief sculptures at Gobekli Tepe, around 12,000 years ago? Where are the high relief carvings that predate Gobekli Tepe, which served as the skill development toward it? For example. And we don't need to go nearly that far back to notice lack of ancient metal that had to exist, given what it accomplished. Metal disintegrates fast. Megalithic evidence, at minimum and across hi…
Serious question, do we know that metal tools were used for those carvings? From what I recall, until iron/steel was invented, it was pretty much abrasion as bronze was not hard enough to chisel nearly every stone.
Abrasion carved both the high relief sculptures and cut the megaliths from which they arise?
Perhaps, I suppose. I don't know enough about the physics and control of the abrasive techniques referenced. Though, I'm always in favor of emphasizing plausible variables that weaken a hypothesis.
What are the chances that abrasion work like that, hypothetically, was so specialized and unknown in 10,000 BC that Gobekli Tepe's high relief sculptures are the sole examples of that period and the earliest examples of such large and truly technical work? Nevermind the artistic skill that is reflected.
Cro Magnon was carving anthropomorphic stone statuettes in the region of modern Germany in 40,000 BC.
Food for thought: the Tell archaeological sites that dot the Fertile Crescent, which includes the Haran area (Gobekli Tepe), contain the most concentrated evidence of human technological firsts that seems to exist. Including evidence of earliest metalsmithing tech, if I remember correctly. See Yarim Tepe for a jumping off point.
So the situation is:
a. Stone carving predated Gobekli Tepe by at least 30,000 years b. The earliest known stone carvings were not in the region of Gobekli Tepe. Implying that stone carving culture and tech was known far outside of Mesopotamia, from an extremely early period. c. Gobekli Tepe's specific accomplishments are the first evidence that we have of such advanced sculpture and megalith construction skill. d. Metalsmithing arose in the immediate regions and cultures that included the area of Gobekli Tepe.
So on one hand we have widespread tech suggested to be responsible for the first evidence of highly technical stonework that is limited to one area in this early period of pre-history, and on the other we have specific advanced tech (metallurgy) that is best for such technical and large scale work arising out of that same area.
It could be a coincidence, but arguably it would be a large one.
Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not pre-human but challenging the understood modern human timeline of industrialisation — We have not found the tools, but we may have found the products; in the form of stone-based vases that archeologists attribute to the Early Egyptian Period but are believed to be from much earlier, and would have required tools that have not been discovered yet. The channel UnchartedX make a compelling argument about this hypoth…
Pre-history is tough. Outside of written accounts and a few major cities cited in particular environments - there isn’t a lot of evidence about what humans were doing for 100k years before the Roman/Chinese empires formed. Even Egyptian history is pretty spotty. We know there were civilizations in North America such as the Mississippi River valley mound builders - but our knowledge tops out at “they existed”. It woul…
There is tons of archeological evidence dating back to the last ice age, roughly 10,000 years ago. Before that, there is ample evidence dating back to the middle paleolithic identifying cultural traditions including art, music, and ritual.
Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
#154There’ve been multiple such throughout history. Some evolved here but most were refugees from elsewhere.
Cataclysms have rewritten the surface geography many times, and combined with erosion and more gradual plate and water changes, the Earth has buried, eroded and eaten most of the evidence.
What little there has been, has been covered up and sequestered away for the same reasons the alien UAP info has been: because the rulers of men are terrified their subjects will see something else besides humans, more advanced, because they fear it will erode their authority and influence.
It’s never been because “we can’t take it, therefore suppressed for ‘our own good’” — that’s just how we’ve been gaslit — it’s always been because our rulers are terrified. We’re an ape species and therefore tribal and hierarchical. A new alpha is a serious destabilizing threat to those who see themselves as the existing alpha.
As a species, our collective mind has grown up with blinders on, shaped, in a test tube, so to speak, of artificial ideas. I hope a big explosion is coming, to blow away all our ignorance and put us in touch with who we are and who everyone else is.
Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where are the tools that carved the high relief sculptures at Gobekli Tepe, around 12,000 years ago? Where are the high relief carvings that predate Gobekli Tepe, which served as the skill development toward it? For example. And we don't need to go nearly that far back to notice lack of ancient metal that had to exist, given what it accomplished. Metal disintegrates fast. Megalithic evidence, at minimum and across hi…
> Where are the tools that carved the high relief sculptures at Gobekli Tepe, around 12,000 years ago? Mostly flint. It's a seven on the Mohs hardness scale which is harder than unhardened steel tools. Archaic humans have been making flint tools for millions of years. > Where are the high relief carvings that predate Gobekli Tepe, which served as the skill development toward it? Where to begin? Abri Castanet 35 kYa […
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Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Where are the tools that carved the high relief sculptures at Gobekli Tepe, around 12,000 years ago? Mostly flint. It's a seven on the Mohs hardness scale which is harder than unhardened steel tools. Archaic humans have been making flint tools for millions of years. > Where are the high relief carvings that predate Gobekli Tepe, which served as the skill development toward it? Where to begin? Abri Castanet 35 kYa […
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Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
#157There’ve been multiple such throughout history. Some evolved here but most were refugees from elsewhere. Cataclysms have rewritten the surface geography many times, and combined with erosion and more gradual plate and water changes, the Earth has buried, eroded and eaten most of the evidence. What little there has been, has been covered up and sequestered away for the same reasons the alien UAP info has been: because…
Source?
Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
#158No, because there is no genetic evidence of this civilization. Our DNA remains linked to our ancestors in Africa. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/human-dna-tied-mostly-to-single...
I think they mean not necessarily human beings but any advanced civilization.
Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where are the tools that carved the high relief sculptures at Gobekli Tepe, around 12,000 years ago? Where are the high relief carvings that predate Gobekli Tepe, which served as the skill development toward it? For example. And we don't need to go nearly that far back to notice lack of ancient metal that had to exist, given what it accomplished. Metal disintegrates fast. Megalithic evidence, at minimum and across hi…
Serious question, do we know that metal tools were used for those carvings? From what I recall, until iron/steel was invented, it was pretty much abrasion as bronze was not hard enough to chisel nearly every stone.
They were not. The primary stonework technique was almost certainly pecking [1], where you take a small "hammer" and whack it against the stone, pulverizing a bit at a time. This leaves a characteristic surface you can observe on the pillars today. However, the Gobekli Tepe builders were a bit smarter than just carving everything from scratch. They made use of the exposed limestone layers to quarry materials that were roughly the right shape and thickness.
Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?
#160There’ve been multiple such throughout history. Some evolved here but most were refugees from elsewhere. Cataclysms have rewritten the surface geography many times, and combined with erosion and more gradual plate and water changes, the Earth has buried, eroded and eaten most of the evidence. What little there has been, has been covered up and sequestered away for the same reasons the alien UAP info has been: because…
Source?
Ah, I mean, probably nothing that would convince you. If you go looking, you can put the picture together if you have the capability for discovery and the mindset to do that.
But I don’t think I could just list some sources where you could go in and sort of in computational fashion go and deduce this conclusion.
And I understand that, so for the most part for many people, this conclusion will remain out of reach, because there are it appears no easy set of sources that could satisfy them that they couldn’t say “well that source could be discredited because of this, or clearly, it was written by this person who we can discredit, or by saying they’re sure it was written at a time where people didn’t understand, or that there was political pressure to write such and such a thing or it was done for entertainment or whatever it is,” I mean there’s always arguments you can make against any source.
And so I understand and I think it’s perfectly fine for those people that These types of ideas will remain out of reach for them for now until such a day as there is some sort of official confirmation from some important authority figures of these ideas and at that point those ideas will then have a wider audience of acceptance, because there is certainly some people that require not discovery, but authoritative confirmation, I suppose.
Yet, if you were the discovering type than what I have said, combined with your innate abilities, surely you already have enough to go put the picture together for yourself to your own satisfaction. If so, my friend, good luck! Bon voyage :)