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Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

nautil.us

141–150 of 282 posts

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#141

Obviously this doesn't apply when speaking on the scale of millions of years, but I remember reading that there may not be enough easily accessible energy sources (ie fossil fuels) left to jump start another industrial civilization if our current one where to collapse.

There are a lot of coal deposits left. A lot of them are near the surface, some exposed by mines. The downside is that they are far from current civilization since the closer ones have been mined. Wood was important in the US for industrialization. Unlike Europe, the US had lots of forests. Those might be enough for start. Also, we know how to make electricity from solar, wind, and hydro. They need electricity and go…

Enough to start bit how far would we get?

As a cynical young adult I always giggled at the 'coke express' train cars that flew by on the railroad tracks but nowadays I know what that means what it's used for and how we get it.

I.e. so many of our modern industrial processes still depend on coal, and the alternatives often require huge energy inputs themselves.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#142
post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

Where are the tools that carved the high relief sculptures at Gobekli Tepe, around 12,000 years ago? Where are the high relief carvings that predate Gobekli Tepe, which served as the skill development toward it? For example. And we don't need to go nearly that far back to notice lack of ancient metal that had to exist, given what it accomplished. Metal disintegrates fast. Megalithic evidence, at minimum and across hi…

Serious question, do we know that metal tools were used for those carvings?

From what I recall, until iron/steel was invented, it was pretty much abrasion as bronze was not hard enough to chisel nearly every stone.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall TV shows saying that the Egyptian pyramids could not have been constructed with Egyptian technology, so it must have been space aliens. The same for the closely fitting stones in Inca buildings. It doesn't take advanced technology to do either of those things. My favorite one was pi is there in the relationship between the pyramid base length and its height, and the Egyptians had no notion of pi. Again, spac…

Both can be true that it took more advanced tech than they are credited and it wasn't aliens.

The simplest explanation is the most likely.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, although not all of them, and not all of those that do remain. If styrofoam ever starts rotting, maybe the styro-philes will eat 100% of each cup and poop out only completely normal organic matter. Nobody will ever find it!

Can we develope such a microorganism please?

Worms were discovered that eat styrofoam. There was a lot about it going on the news last summer[0].

0: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/superworms-eat-an...

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#145
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not pre-human but challenging the understood modern human timeline of industrialisation — We have not found the tools, but we may have found the products; in the form of stone-based vases that archeologists attribute to the Early Egyptian Period but are believed to be from much earlier, and would have required tools that have not been discovered yet. The channel UnchartedX make a compelling argument about this hypoth…

I recall TV shows saying that the Egyptian pyramids could not have been constructed with Egyptian technology, so it must have been space aliens. The same for the closely fitting stones in Inca buildings. It doesn't take advanced technology to do either of those things. My favorite one was pi is there in the relationship between the pyramid base length and its height, and the Egyptians had no notion of pi. Again, spac…

This reminds me of this video by engineerguy that discusses the use of heuristics in engineering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ivqWN4L3zU

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the tools that carved the high relief sculptures at Gobekli Tepe, around 12,000 years ago? Where are the high relief carvings that predate Gobekli Tepe, which served as the skill development toward it? For example. And we don't need to go nearly that far back to notice lack of ancient metal that had to exist, given what it accomplished. Metal disintegrates fast. Megalithic evidence, at minimum and across hi…

Serious question, do we know that metal tools were used for those carvings? From what I recall, until iron/steel was invented, it was pretty much abrasion as bronze was not hard enough to chisel nearly every stone.

The bedrock around Göbekli Tepe is apparently limestone, so saith Wikipedia, so no, metal is not required to carve it.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" The new images of the Face at Cydonia Mensa confirm eyes, nose, mouth, helmet structure with additional detail of nostrils and helmet ornaments being clearly seen in new images with details at approximately 1/10 scale of the face. New imagery confirms the pyramid structure seen in Viking images of the The D&M pyramid and new high resolution images show evidence of collapsed brickwork. New images of a face found at…

That's some industrial grade apophenia, pareidolia, and good old fashioned cognitive dissonance. The MSSS imagery makes it very plane that the Cydonian face is just a hill. But no, they put some white arrows pointing to nothing and claim it's evidence of a made up thing.

> That's some industrial grade apophenia

In this case, that's some industrial grade bullshit !

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#149
post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

Where are the tools that carved the high relief sculptures at Gobekli Tepe, around 12,000 years ago? Where are the high relief carvings that predate Gobekli Tepe, which served as the skill development toward it? For example. And we don't need to go nearly that far back to notice lack of ancient metal that had to exist, given what it accomplished. Metal disintegrates fast. Megalithic evidence, at minimum and across hi…

> Where are the tools that carved the high relief sculptures at Gobekli Tepe, around 12,000 years ago?

Mostly flint. It's a seven on the Mohs hardness scale which is harder than unhardened steel tools.

Archaic humans have been making flint tools for millions of years.

> Where are the high relief carvings that predate Gobekli Tepe, which served as the skill development toward it?

Where to begin? Abri Castanet 35 kYa [1]. Venus of Laussel 25 kYa [2]. Roc de Sers cave 17 kYa [3]. There are countless other examples - most of them don't event have wikipedia pages.

Oldest known engravings by an Erectus are about 500,000 years old so it's been in the family for hundreds of thousands of years.

[1] https://www.archaeology.org/issues/63-features/top-10/270-to...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Laussel

[3] http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/prehistoric/roc-de-sers.htm

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