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S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

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Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#371

Post by coderenegade »

majormajor wrote: post #324
jtriangle wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, you have an affordable, tenuously waterproofed, chinese mass produced e-bike, it's your only available mode of transportation, you need to go into the office for a meeting, and it's raining. Welcome to hell. Also, not sure if you've used public transportation recently, but man, it SUCKS. Far less time efficient than a car, often crowded during the times you want to use it, and ZERO enforcement of proper etiquet…

About 11 years ago I road some rush hour subways in China for a couple weeks while working in an office out there for a project. It was clean, people were quiet, all the sort of "crime" or "etiquette" concerns seemed addressed from my POV. It was still terrible because it was crowded as hell and we were packed in and standing up for 20-40 minutes. From talking to locals, people's commute time tolerance still stretche…

Yeah, this. I've done the Asian subway commute thing, and it's pretty crap. Tolerable, but only because using a car in those places is mostly untenable. It's even worse in western countries, because we don't have the commitment to rock-solid subway schedules that places like Japan and Korea do. Here we get poorly planned maintenance works, and commute times that can balloon out by hours because you're taking replacement buses. That's before we get into factors like assaults and harassment.

I will never use public transport for commuting in my home country again. I got a car at the onset of COVID, and I'm not going back. As for the suggestion of using bikes, well... I grew up the monsoon zone. Good luck convincing people that a bike will fit their needs for the 5 months of the year when it's raining. People honestly forget what a miracle cars are. They're not perfect, but they're reliable, they get the job done, and there's a car that can meet just about anybody's needs. Even if you made an e-bike with some kind of weather protection, I'd be willing to bet that at some point, you just end up with a downsized car. Bikes just aren't the universal workhorses that cars are.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#372

Post by AlexandrB »

fragmede wrote: post #306

I will provide a dissenting voice. I was riding a Cruise with a friend the other night, leaving a bar - they only serve a nighttime crowd right now. suddenly a drunk hippie on Haight street started banging on the windows. Rather than get on our way and get us out of there like a Homan driver would, the cruise stopped, powered down - as in unlocked the doors, and called customer service. I shudder to think what would…

There's also the other possibility that it's a firefighter banging on the doors, trying to stop the car from driving into a dangerous area. I'd argue that's the more dangerous scenario too. PCP doesn't magically turn someone into a maniacal killer.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#373

Post by seanmcdirmid »

foota wrote: post #294
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the most popular job in the USA is "truck driver", they might have some clue about what the damage might be. Eventually they can retrain, but we are going to be throwing a whole generation out of work without a very good alternative.

I don't think this is accurate, see: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/no-truck-driver-isnt-the-m...

I think it depends on how you cluster job categories. If you make a giant retail job category, then of course it will be the largest. From the article:

> The Bureau of Labor Statistics has a system, but it’s a bit arbitrary. The BLS classification system attempts to group together workers who have similar duties and skills, but it’s as much art as it is science.

> For instance, the BLS sorts 7 million teachers into more than 80 separate occupations. (Special-ed teachers in elementary schools have a different occupation than special-ed teachers in preschools, middle schools or high schools, for instance.) But all 4 million retail salespersons are lumped into one large category, whether they sell lumber or lingerie.

> That’s where NPR was led astray. NPR looked at a data set that aggregated various kinds of truck drivers into a single category but that didn’t aggregate other occupations in the same way. The sorting was inconsistent, so the comparison isn’t a legitimate one, and it makes us think that truck driving is the most common occupation in many states.

On some of these surveys, I've seen Computer Programmer come up as the most common job in my state, which is definitely not true :).

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#374

Post by kelnos »

9991 wrote: post #316
jrmg wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, and further up this post there was someone talking about running over groups of cyclists if they maliciously surrounded their car. Try to remain calm. You’re generally not allowed to just _murder_ people who attempt to inconvenience, detain, or rob you, even though they are ‘being dicks’. That’s not how crime is dealt with in a stable society. It’s not a ‘new reality’. I really hope we’re not devolving into a pl…

How far gone are you to think that kidnapping and robbery aren't violent acts that justify violent responses? If you try to detain me illegally (also known as false imprisonment) you're just asking for a face full of lead. But 'Murder' is unlawful killing. This would be self-defense.

Right, but the law doesn't allow you (in California, at least) to assume that someone (for example) putting a cone on your car is also intending to rob or kidnap or kill you.

And even then, you are not legally allowed to use deadly force to protect your belongings; you can only do so if your life is in danger.

Certainly some places have "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" laws that give you more latitude to use self-defense as legal justification, but even in places like that, it's not absolute.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#375

Post by jeffbee »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #333
Aurornis wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A 60lb e-bike can also transport a 200 lb person whilst using far less resources (both to make the vehicle and to operate it) and space. E-bikes are great for the situations, climates, and people who can use them. E-bikes are not a substitute for the majority of people’s transportation needs. I think the young, healthy people who live in moderate climates with good weather, short commutes, and little need to haul a…

Almost everyone can use an ebike, to be young and healthy is not necessary. Almost never do people need to haul stuff that can’t fit in either a cargo bike or a small bike trailer. Bikes are used in all possible climates and weather, you just need to dress for the occasion. There are definitely uses for cars. They are a necessary option for people but in a city they really should be one of the last options.

E-bikes and indeed bikes in general are mobility devices. About half the U.S. population is unable to drive a car for some reason: age too old or young, disability, licensure, or economic. The majority of disabled people who cannot operate a car can operate a bicycle instead. Bicycling is much more inclusive than driving.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#376

Post by xyzzyz »

nerdbert wrote: post #262
Aurornis wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A 60lb e-bike can also transport a 200 lb person whilst using far less resources (both to make the vehicle and to operate it) and space. E-bikes are great for the situations, climates, and people who can use them. E-bikes are not a substitute for the majority of people’s transportation needs. I think the young, healthy people who live in moderate climates with good weather, short commutes, and little need to haul a…

They work for the majority of people of all ages who live in cities where the infrastructure has been properly built to accommodate bikes. Most people rarely need to haul anything and can use carshare when they do. I've demoed a multistory house down to the bricks and re-built it from the outside in without a car. Hired someone to haul off a dumpster several times. For major materials deliveries, like beams or window…

I have been driving my children to daycare for past 3 years. I will be driving my children to daycare for at least 3 more years. Bicycle is not a viable replacement for this use case, sorry. My situation is far from unique, raising children is quite universal human experience.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#377

Post by ajmurmann »

DragonStrength wrote: post #198
rubyron wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need a fake hand to rise up and wave over the steering wheel so pedestrians will know they’re waiting for them.

A visual indicator the car sees a pedestrian would be helpful.

Such a good point. With human drivers I get very nervous of I cross in front them and haven't made eye contact with them. We need that for cars

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#378

Post by TaylorAlexander »

Aurornis wrote: post #234
cashsterling wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the other reply to this post got downvoted to hell. THe person has a point. Fully autonomous cars are cool... don't get me wrong. But electric cars and autonomous electric/gas cars are probably not the right solution to our person transport needs. using energy to move a 4000 lb vehicle to transport one or two 200 lb humans is not energy-efficient... most of the energy is spent just moving the vehicle…

> A 60lb e-bike can also transport a 200 lb person whilst using far less resources (both to make the vehicle and to operate it) and space. E-bikes are great for the situations, climates, and people who can use them. E-bikes are not a substitute for the majority of people’s transportation needs. I think the young, healthy people who live in moderate climates with good weather, short commutes, and little need to haul a…

> I think the young, healthy people who live in moderate climates with good weather, short commutes, and little need to haul anything

The old dutch people riding their bakfietsen around in the snow show this is much more a cultural thing than a hard fact of weather and human nature - and culture can change as the need arises.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA

As far as short commutes - that's as much a factor of public policy as are trains and other forms of public transport.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#379

Post by zizee »

cashsterling wrote: post #206
throwaway9274 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely right. To situate in terms of recent events, there have been three stages of trying to delay / influence the California CPUC robotaxi expansion approval vote: 1. Tried a politician scare campaign. Failed because it was too transparent it was an attempted distraction from their terrible public safety record. 2. Tried coning and disabling the vehicles. Failed because it was too transparently astroturfed, leg…

I don't know why the other reply to this post got downvoted to hell. THe person has a point. Fully autonomous cars are cool... don't get me wrong. But electric cars and autonomous electric/gas cars are probably not the right solution to our person transport needs. using energy to move a 4000 lb vehicle to transport one or two 200 lb humans is not energy-efficient... most of the energy is spent just moving the vehicle…

I don't see why this technology would not be applied to minibus type public transportation, and we'll quickly see it enhancing public transportation.

These vehicles are also likely to play a lot nicer with cyclists, vs emotional humans that are angered by cyclists for some reason.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#380

Post by fnimick »

1024core wrote: post #366
cashsterling wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the other reply to this post got downvoted to hell. THe person has a point. Fully autonomous cars are cool... don't get me wrong. But electric cars and autonomous electric/gas cars are probably not the right solution to our person transport needs. using energy to move a 4000 lb vehicle to transport one or two 200 lb humans is not energy-efficient... most of the energy is spent just moving the vehicle…

> A 60lb e-bike can also transport a 200 lb person whilst using far less resources (both to make the vehicle and to operate it) and space. Have you ever ridden bikes in SF? I have. Even though I was an occasional rider, I got into 2 accidents that could have seriously hurt me (just through pure luck I didn't end up with hospitalization-worthy injuries). Both not my fault (one a dooring; another a driver turning into…

The solution to that is to build better infrastructure to remove bicycle/vehicle conflict points, not put everyone in cars so they can be "safe".
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