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The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

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Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#221

Post by tivert »

ceejayoz wrote: post #190
tivert wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4chan is about as mainstream as it gets. 4chan certainly isn't mainstream. Being somewhat well-trafficked != mainstream. > Being edgy and racist isn't countercultural, certainly not nowadays. That's just so obviously wrong, it's hard to know where to start. I mean, pretty much the entire media and business apparatus of the country spends a lot of effort loudly condemning those things. You might have the arrived at…

> I mean, pretty much the entire media and business apparatus of the country spends a lot of effort loudly condemning those things. ... and it's widely claimed by many that they're out of touch with Real American culture for doing so. There's no easy, solid definition here. Disney and DeSantis are fighting over culture hot potatoes; which one is "establishment" and which one is "counter-culture" in that fight? (Neith…

> ... and it's widely claimed by many that they're out of touch with Real American culture for doing so.

Which does not in any way translate into 4chan-style "edgy and racist" being in any way mainstream, let alone "as mainstream as it gets."

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#222

Post by jononomo »

hutzlibu wrote: post #218
jononomo wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've interacted with the kids. They decorate their desks with Harry Potter paraphernalia and they boast about their eating disorders.

First, who did taught them about all that, that annoys you? Secondly, maybe try seeing more people under 30 regulary with an open mind. I am sure you will eventually find someone not engaged with that. Just like you can find people over 30, who are still open to the world.

what?

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#223

Post by Pannoniae »

maxbond wrote: post #216
Pannoniae wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, I see what you mean now. It was a bit misleading in the original post, I apologise for misinterpreting it.

Nah that's on me. Appreciated though.

Cheers:)

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#224

Post by keiferski »

RC_ITR wrote: post #121
ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

I always think it’s so interesting that on the threads about counterculture, nobody brings up the obvious counterculture that is a huge topic of conversation in America: Homeless people. A large group of individuals who live their life very differently from the mainstream (countercultures do not have to be opt-in), who have completely different goals/morals/motivations than the mainstream, and are fully and violently…

The vagabond/train hopping/squatting culture is a better fit for the subculture label, I think. Similar motivations but more obviously “chosen” as a lifestyle.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#225

Post by ceejayoz »

tivert wrote: post #221
ceejayoz wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, pretty much the entire media and business apparatus of the country spends a lot of effort loudly condemning those things. ... and it's widely claimed by many that they're out of touch with Real American culture for doing so. There's no easy, solid definition here. Disney and DeSantis are fighting over culture hot potatoes; which one is "establishment" and which one is "counter-culture" in that fight? (Neith…

> ... and it's widely claimed by many that they're out of touch with Real American culture for doing so. Which does not in any way translate into 4chan-style "edgy and racist" being in any way mainstream, let alone "as mainstream as it gets."

No, for that you've gotta go a little further, to things like Congressmen using the term "colored people" on the House floor. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/rep-eli-crane-refe...

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#226

Post by s1artibartfast »

RC_ITR wrote: post #139
dragonwriter wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A large group of individuals who live their life very differently from the mainstream (countercultures do not have to be opt-in) Yes, it does, and it has to have aspirational elements, distinct from those of the mainstrram it is defined against. Otherwise, while it is a a distinct (possibly sub-)culture, it isn’t a counterculture. When you have to alter the widely understood meaning of a term to argue everyone else…

So the Roma aren’t a counterculture? I agree homeless people aren’t a political movement that’s trying to abolish homes, but they are completely rejecting mainstream culture (by choice or not). > Countercultures are often described as radical groups of people who reject established social values and practices and who embrace a mode of life opposed to the mainstream. Countercultures emerge in the wake of dramatic econ…

>they are completely rejecting mainstream culture (by choice or not).

Choice is fundamental to rejection, and rejection is fundamental to counter culture.

The Roma are an interesting example, but not all homeless are Roma, so you can't generalize the idea. It's also interesting to question if Roma constitute a counterculture, and if so what culture they are in juxtaposition with given the fact that Roma culture predates contemporary culture

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#227

Post by ulizzle »

ecshafer wrote: post #37

The author has a good use of language but so many things they say seem very off. They seem overly fixated on the idea that counter-culture also has to be progressive. They are weirdly fixated on some aspects of internet culture. The main take away I have is that this author doesn't really seem to understand culture, what is counter culture, or internet culture. They are right that instagram isn't counter cultural, Bu…

Yeah, that was my same take. To be counter-culture, according to this article, you have to be a progressive furry goth hacker, who prays to St. Greta of Climate Change and Karl Marx, puts pronouns in their bios, and moonlights as an Antifa every once in a long while.

That's been mainstream for a while. There are plenty of counter-cultures out there online; but because the author leans left, they are blind to them. Likely, the author doesn't even think of it as culture, like how "white people don't have culture."

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#228

Post by dragonwriter »

safety1st wrote: post #163
dragonwriter wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it's really right wing, there is an exodus of people from the Left as it becomes increasingly ideological, they may dally with the Right a bit - I think the first mention of this phenomenon was way back in 2014 by Scott Alexander as the "grey tribe" that was beginning to form: No, there isn't and a sector defined by a particular ideological position doesn’t get “more ideological”. (There might be a be…

How do you explain Tulsi Gabbard and Naomi Wolf condemning intolerance in the Democratic Party in an interview with Jordan Peterson? Neither one is exactly a "lingering ideological conservative." When I said the Left is becoming increasingly ideological perhaps I should have used the word intolerant instead. It is becoming more rigid in terms of what beliefs its members are allowed to hold, and the punishment for hol…

> How do you explain Tulsi Gabbard and Naomi Wolf condemning intolerance in the Democratic Party in an interview with Jordan Peterson?

Tulsi Gabbard has had bizarre (usually extreme but also radically inconsistent over time) set of political positions, her moving around relative to a group generally isn’t a matter of the other group moving at all, its usually (including her formal move away from the Democratic Party) directly associated with substantive changes of her positions, whether its her move from being an extreme anti-LGBT activist where she built he early political career to a move to a moderate mainstream Democratic position, her move from an extreme Islamophobe and anti-Arab racist activist to rhetorically coddling Assad, or her more recent moves.

Wolf seems to have been an opportunistic, dishonest hack her entire career, and pushing culturally conservative angles at least as far back as her work under Dick Morris doing image work for Clinton.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#229

Post by tivert »

ceejayoz wrote: post #225
tivert wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... and it's widely claimed by many that they're out of touch with Real American culture for doing so. Which does not in any way translate into 4chan-style "edgy and racist" being in any way mainstream, let alone "as mainstream as it gets."

No, for that you've gotta go a little further, to things like Congressmen using the term "colored people" on the House floor. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/rep-eli-crane-refe...

Sorry, but I think you're confused about what "mainstream" is. Some congressional back-bencher saying something controversial, which we walked back and was then immediately stricken from the record is not proof a thing is mainstream. In fact, it's proof that it's not.

And we're talking about 4chan here, and wouldn't they just use the n-word?

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#230

Post by carlosjobim »

jehb wrote: post #197
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work seasonally and spend the other half of the year trying to disconnect and focus on real-life, outdoor hobbies. Even if I leave my phone turned off, the majority of the people around me, young and old alike, are on their phones. They feel a need to document what they are doing on social media. Even in countercultures that draw on the 1960s hippies for examples, people might frown on photos going on social media,…

> I work seasonally and spend the other half of the year trying to disconnect and focus on real-life, outdoor hobbies. A bit off-topic, but I'm curious if you have any advice for finding seasonal jobs? It feels a bit ironic to be working in tech, making twice what I actually need to live off of, but with no real option to just work half as much.

Any primary industry plus tourism will find you those kind of jobs. They're advertised just the same way as any other jobs. Pay and benefits are usually bottom-tier, with much dishonesty among employers. Work is usually very tough and stressful physically and mentally. Work mates can be some of the most fun people you've met.
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