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The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

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Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#131

Post by dogman144 »

hammock wrote: post #102
ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

Networks of cottage industry. During Covid lockdowns I joined a powerlifting gym that was a startup in an old dry cleaners, had to “try out” to get in (make sure I wasn’t a narc), was the only gym in a city of 5+ million that was open and they had papered over the windows so prying eyes couldn’t observe the no-masks inside. I had the fewest tats in the place, you only wear black, there will never be any TVs and the h…

Yes agree. Finding small local interest groups usually leads towards communities that’ll run again the Insta-grain. This is most of my social life as well.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#133

Post by dogman144 »

ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

I think this is accurate. I feel more on the outside the more I push into keeping costs low, not opting in to millennial megaplex apartments, all the consumption, all the social media. I hate feeling like in this position of a Luddite-hipster but I’m not hustling in my career and comp just do I can suck all my money and time into that. But increasingly, doing this brands you as “alternative.”

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#134

Post by krapp »

basisword wrote: post #126
jahewson wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The last 24 years in the US have/will be split equally between Democrat and Republican presidents. By this logic the counterculture can’t be left-wing either.

Why does the counter culture have to be left wing or right wing? It could be centrist. Apolitical. Based around other shared beliefs outside of political differences.

Counter culture by definition counters some established cultural paradigm. It is at least critical, and at most actively hostile - but cannot by its very nature be apolitical, much less maximally accepting.

Counterculture among the right would be the alt-right/white supremacist movements and QAnon, which counter mainstream conservatism. Among the left it would be actual (not the American definition of "anyone to the left of Reagan") communists, tankies, black and indigenous activism, etc.

It's true that not every counterculture has to be defined, or define themselves, along the left/right axis, but given the greedy nature of that axis, it seems inevitable that any counterculture could be.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#135

Post by baryphonic »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #108
Llamasponge wrote: post #12

In a time where tolerance and respect for minorities is slowly becoming mainstream, you could argue that the far-right has become counterculture. The far-right is VERY prevalent on both Instagram, Twitter and other social media.

I posted this comment elsewhere but it's better moved here: I honestly think modern conservatism could now be classified by a counterculture, because they define themselves more by what they're against than what they are for. Seriously, over the years I've wracked my brain wondering why conservatism has moved so far to the radical fringe to the point where they simply seem to stand in opposition to even the most unco…

> Seriously, over the years I've wracked my brain wondering why conservatism has moved so far to the radical fringe to the point where they simply seem to stand in opposition to even the most uncontroversial stances on things like global warming, healthcare, vaccines, basic human rights, etc.

Has conservatism "moved?" And if it has, has it moved to the right? If we were to time travel three generations ago, would the mainstream liberal culture then be more similar to the present day conservative culture or the present day liberal culture on the issues mentioned?

I submit that a present-day conservative would likely be a staunch liberal in those days. The Left has simply moved much further to the left.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#136

Post by dragonwriter »

RC_ITR wrote: post #121
ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

I always think it’s so interesting that on the threads about counterculture, nobody brings up the obvious counterculture that is a huge topic of conversation in America: Homeless people. A large group of individuals who live their life very differently from the mainstream (countercultures do not have to be opt-in), who have completely different goals/morals/motivations than the mainstream, and are fully and violently…

> A large group of individuals who live their life very differently from the mainstream (countercultures do not have to be opt-in)

Yes, it does, and it has to have aspirational elements, distinct from those of the mainstrram it is defined against. Otherwise, while it is a a distinct (possibly sub-)culture, it isn’t a counterculture.

When you have to alter the widely understood meaning of a term to argue everyone else is overlooking an example, its a pretty good clue that its not an example.

> I think the 1960’s mythology confused a lot of people into thinking that counterculture is what young white people choose to do to seem cool,

Well, yes, “counterculture” was largely a label of the 1960s version of the boomer/millenial fight, but for “Greatest" vs Boomers, and without the adoption of marketing generational terms, and then as now it mainly applied to whites, because if it wasn’t intergenerational cultural conflict within White America, it got other labels.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#137

Post by nus07 »

Money corrupts all. A big part of counterculture in the past was the luxury to go against the grain and do things without having to worry about your next meal or paying off your debts and healthcare. Unfortunately today we live in a much more complex society where a lot more people are in debt and less secure. As a result it’s become way more difficult to be counterculture today. The ones who are probably considered crazy right wingers or so on.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#138

Post by tqi »

tekla wrote: post #20

Counterculture requires gatekeeping, because most people can't take it, ESPECIALLY anyone who uses Instragram The best times I've had were having parties where we would work on cool exhibits with barely contained pyrotechnics, Tesla coils that would kill you if you touched it, and an expectation that YOU DO NOT PUT IT ON THE INTERNET and if you get hurt, YOU DID NOT GET HURT HERE. Everyone wants a nice and curated ex…

"Counterculture requires gatekeeping, because most people can't take it, ESPECIALLY anyone who uses Instragram"

I think the word to describe counter culture is "exclusionary," and I suspect if a large crowd of "Instagram" people showed up at a "counterculture" gathering the counterculture-ists would be equally unable to "take it."

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#139

Post by RC_ITR »

dragonwriter wrote: post #136
RC_ITR wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always think it’s so interesting that on the threads about counterculture, nobody brings up the obvious counterculture that is a huge topic of conversation in America: Homeless people. A large group of individuals who live their life very differently from the mainstream (countercultures do not have to be opt-in), who have completely different goals/morals/motivations than the mainstream, and are fully and violently…

> A large group of individuals who live their life very differently from the mainstream (countercultures do not have to be opt-in) Yes, it does, and it has to have aspirational elements, distinct from those of the mainstrram it is defined against. Otherwise, while it is a a distinct (possibly sub-)culture, it isn’t a counterculture. When you have to alter the widely understood meaning of a term to argue everyone else…

So the Roma aren’t a counterculture?

I agree homeless people aren’t a political movement that’s trying to abolish homes, but they are completely rejecting mainstream culture (by choice or not).

> Countercultures are often described as radical groups of people who reject established social values and practices and who embrace a mode of life opposed to the mainstream. Countercultures emerge in the wake of dramatic economic and social developments. They are reactions to social dislocation and alienation from society. Countercultures share many similarities with subcultures, but rather than modifying dominant values and norms, they seek to reconstruct an alternative social order that rejects or subverts those values and norms.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/counter...

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#140

Post by jhartwig »

hammock wrote: post #102
ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

Networks of cottage industry. During Covid lockdowns I joined a powerlifting gym that was a startup in an old dry cleaners, had to “try out” to get in (make sure I wasn’t a narc), was the only gym in a city of 5+ million that was open and they had papered over the windows so prying eyes couldn’t observe the no-masks inside. I had the fewest tats in the place, you only wear black, there will never be any TVs and the h…

(Make sure I wasn’t a narc) What does this mean in the context? Were they afraid of getting shut down during covid or something? I’m assuming that is what you meant.
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