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Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

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171–180 of 187 posts

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would I pay for an AI-based infinite album maker? You bet! it sounds like you don't even like art what exactly do you feel when you listen to music? what makes you want to listen to music? what drew you to rush and pink floyd in the first place? i ask because my subjective answers to those questions are diametrically opposed to some theoretical generative AI album maker

I would pay good money for an AI generator of Children of Bodom music featuring Alexei, or an AI rendition of his style. It's the only way I'd be able to hear new things of his very specific style now that he is dead.

What is an "AI" other than a coverband?

Can a human not imitate a style?

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#172

> “In that ground breaking AI proposal, they proposed that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day’s pay, and their company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and should be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,” he said. “So if you think that’s a ground breaking proposal I suggest you think again.” I m…

Who would want to be an extra then? Aren't most extras people who want to break into the film business? If you are an extra for one movie and the studio owns your likeness forever, how will you get another job as an extra or a cast member? They wouldn't need you since they already have your likeness to use as they please in any film they want. I mean owning the your image within the movie is understandable. But ownin…

> owning the your image within the movie is understandable

I don't think it's at all reasonable to own someone's image for an entire movie, to manipulate it for as many scenes as they want, if the actor was only paid for one scene on one day. Actors should be paid for every scene they are in, whether real or virtual IMO.

It would seem reasonable to pay actors, including their likeness, by the second multiplied by factors such as the actor's experience, importance of their part to the film, etc. Maybe they get paid a little less for using their likeness, but that's a pricing negotiation between the actor and the studio. It could be that the actor's likeness is more valuable than the actual actor performing if the studio needed to do a lot of manipulation.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#173
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds good, I don't actually care about "art" then, based on your definition.

It's not my definition, it's by definition art is: > the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects Conscious use of skill, there's no conscience in AI hence no art.

If we're getting into the definition of art I feel like it's a hard sell that an actual episode of TV, with plot and actors and everything, isn't art because no creative impulse went into it, yet a plain orange canvas is art that's worth $80 million [1] just because a human touched it.

[1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/arts/design/rothko-painti...

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#174
post #11

For consumers, now is a good time to evaluate paid streaming services. The content pipeline will be rationed and extended, leading to a decline in new programming. HBO/"Max" was already looking shaky, and we've noticed Apple and Amazon are increasingly plastered with paid options.

> The content pipeline will be rationed and extended

Can’t be any worse than it already is with rationed and extended, completely formulaic shoes like NCIS or Simpsons far overstaying their welcome.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#175

Now this could actually force the Hollywood studios back to the negotiating table in earnest. Its one thing to outsource writers, its not easy (I'd say rare to impossible) to outsource the actors themselves.

Digital actors are the future

I sure hope so.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#176
post #17

Disney's operating income from its entertainment segment was over $1.1B for the last quarter [0]. It's down quite a bit from the year before but there is still plenty of wiggle room to pay actors and writers. [0] https://alpharesearch.io/platform/share?filingId=0001744489-...

Since that money belongs to the share holders, any non-management salary expenses are clearly securities fraud. /s

I mean, you joke, but it honestly seems more and more like that's the position many execs and finance types are trying to take these days. Top management and shareholders deserve to get big bucks; everyone else, especially the people doing 100% of the actual work, are cost centers to be minimized as aggressively and uncompromisingly as possible.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#177
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to stop the actors or writers from simply making their own content? It made sense to me when you had terrestrial television stations with actual monopolies over broadcast rights. But now with the internet they have many vectors to share and market their content. So you won't be on NBC or Netflix or whatever, so what, post it on Twitter and YouTube. If they move to alternative distribution platforms and the stu…

> What's to stop the actors or writers from simply making their own content? 1) access to capital to cover the cost of production. $/min of a Mandalorian episode or even a late night comedy show is way above self funding capacity of most of the people employed as writers or actors. 2) critical mass providing leverage in distribution. It is very very cheap for Netflix to market just one more show, as compared with the…

> But take any successful show in the last few years, it simply could not have made nearly the same audience or revenue on these platforms. The stuff you see there is already hyper optimized for these platforms - it'd be a very poor business decision to take a show with the production cost of TV or subscription services, and monetize it purely on these platforms.

This is exactly it. There are tons of incredible series with high production values on YouTube created on shoestring budgets, but they mostly cater to very specific niches. They can succeed on YouTube because they aren't going for the broad appeal and hyper-consistent development cycle required for TV channels to pick them up. If such an ecosystem existed in the early 00s, some of these series probably would have been picked up and made incredibly successful to a much broader audience by channels like Discovery, History, or TLC, but falling cable subscriptions has resulted in massive consolidation diluting the original premises of these networks, thus forcing them to focus on more generalized content. (The 2007-2008 WGA strike certainly didn't help, but I think this was inevitable with the subsequent rise of streaming services - the strike just kickstarted the realityfication/enshittification of cable TV a couple years early.)

That's not to say that no YouTube series or YouTubers can make it on TV, but they have to fall into the niche of having broad appeal on YouTube without being limited to YouTube, and I think Drew Gooden made this point really well in his video covering Lilly Singh's late night show [0], which got off to a horrendous start because studio execs, blinded by the prospect of getting a popular YouTuber to make a show for them and (hopefully) get that YouTuber's audience to throw their eyeballs at it, did not attempt to create a show that worked for Lilly, but instead shoved Lilly into a tired formula which she floundered in. (Keep in mind that Lilly's core YouTube demographic would be sound asleep by the time each episode aired at 1:30 AM, and one wonders the kind of discussions that led to this show getting greenlit in the first place.)

In a way, though, we're already seeing lots of content which is hyper-optimized for streaming services that is paid for by the big studios - I remember seeing an interview with some writers for a show only available on Netflix (I think, and I wish I could remember anything more specific) who remarked that with broadcast shows, you had to fit everything neatly into very specific timeslots, and that each timeslot had to have a hook to keep you sticking around after the commercial break, but when you're writing for a streaming platform, all those considerations just go out the window, allowing for much easier and more natural storytelling, like a movie.

Of course, you could still air these shows on TV, but they wouldn't work as well on TV as, much like movies that get chopped up for broadcast, very rarely do you have good hooks before commercial breaks. In addition, many shows made for streaming services do not follow the standard 18-22/37-42 minute show length, which means you have to either insert a ton of ads to pad the runtime into a 30/60/90 minute timeslot or have an odd lineup until you can get to some other oddball-length show (or until the infomercials begin).

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lex6USTugUU

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#178
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since that money belongs to the share holders, any non-management salary expenses are clearly securities fraud. /s

I mean, you joke, but it honestly seems more and more like that's the position many execs and finance types are trying to take these days. Top management and shareholders deserve to get big bucks; everyone else, especially the people doing 100% of the actual work , are cost centers to be minimized as aggressively and uncompromisingly as possible.

[dead]

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was part of the plot of "Joan is Awful" (Black Mirror S06E01). I sorta expected some sort of AI proposal but I didn't think it would be so drastic, so soon. Then again, it might just be the tactic of asking for a mountain to get the hill you really want (I'm sure there's a name for this).

Black mirror surprisingly accurately captured the human consequences of the ultra-capitalistic-tech future. Still remember the episode where the guy runs on a treadmill to collect points and uses it on porn. Not too different from tech workers running hard everyday and yet, spending all their money on only-fans, living in a studio apartment in a VHCOL city.

Just to be pedantic but in that episode the main character does not use it on porn himself although that is a common use of points in that world. The episode is about his love interest falling for that side of producing income however.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#180
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would want to be an extra then? Aren't most extras people who want to break into the film business? If you are an extra for one movie and the studio owns your likeness forever, how will you get another job as an extra or a cast member? They wouldn't need you since they already have your likeness to use as they please in any film they want. I mean owning the your image within the movie is understandable. But ownin…

> owning the your image within the movie is understandable I don't think it's at all reasonable to own someone's image for an entire movie, to manipulate it for as many scenes as they want, if the actor was only paid for one scene on one day. Actors should be paid for every scene they are in, whether real or virtual IMO. It would seem reasonable to pay actors, including their likeness, by the second multiplied by fac…

I found Rick and Morty LLC based out of LA listed as a production company for the show for two seasons. It's probably owned by Warner just like other production companies like Williams Street which does a ton of other shows for cartoon network or adult swim.
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