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Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

reuters.com

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Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#31

Post by JohnFen »

legitster wrote: post #25
csours wrote: post #17

Some people are confused about SEC involvement. As a reminder, the SEC cannot bring criminal charges. If someone gets arrested, Department of Justice decided to arrest them. > The U.S. Attorney's Office in Manhattan said it would hold a press conference at 11:30 a.m. ET (1530 GMT) to provide details on the charges against Mashinsky and Cohen-Pavon.

Sure, but the SEC completely controls the definition of criminality here. There was no arrest-able offence until the SEC made it one.

I think that it's more accurate to say that the legality of these actions wasn't clear, which everybody knew from the start. These companies decided to take a risk, and they rolled badly on the dice.

The legality is still unclear, too. We don't know whether or not these companies violated the law until a court rules on it.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#32

Post by wpietri »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #8

Crypto is a fraudster's paradise.

And unfortunately I think the tech industry unintentionally enabled it in a few ways.

The internet/mobile boom was a real leap for humanity. (Not an unmixed one, any more than the printing press was. But a real leap nonetheless.) This left a lot investors looking for the Next Big Thing. I think it made regulators very cautious of possibly harming something that could be The Future. Journalists were accustomed to telling uncritical gee-whiz and great-man stories about tech. And we ended up with a cultural archetype of the genius tech founder in the Steve Jobs/Tony Stark mold.

All of these things were vigorously exploited by the cryptocurrency fraudsters and blockchain grifters. That harmed all the people they suckered, of course. But I also think it was terrible for the tech industry. The culture flowed back into tech, and also created an incentive toward hype. All the years and all the money spent on the mining/blockchain/smart contract/ICO/DAO/NFT/DeFi/Web3 series of bullshit "innovations" could have gone to real technology and real companies. All the bright young people distracted by that stuff who instead of learning the fundamentals of real business and real tech who will have to spend years deprogramming themselves.

Hopefully next time around we can be more discerning, more usefully critical.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#34

Post by dcist »

jcranmer wrote: post #14

Journalists really need to link to court documents. Although in this situation, there does seem to be quite a few of them: US v Mashinsky: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60... SEC v Celsius: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60... FTC v Celsius: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60... CFTC v Celsius: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov…

Thank you! I never understand why journalists don't link to court documents.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#35

Post by bravoetch »

zarzavat wrote: post #24
chx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deleted. Read https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2020-12-31-bitcoin-pon... https://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2021-01-16-yes-pon... instead.

What global money transmission method doesn’t have transaction fees? Can you name one?

Cash. That's why you have to declare it when you move it around in large amounts.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#36

Post by tmpz22 »

wpietri wrote: post #32
jqpabc123 wrote: post #8

Crypto is a fraudster's paradise.

And unfortunately I think the tech industry unintentionally enabled it in a few ways. The internet/mobile boom was a real leap for humanity. (Not an unmixed one, any more than the printing press was. But a real leap nonetheless.) This left a lot investors looking for the Next Big Thing. I think it made regulators very cautious of possibly harming something that could be The Future. Journalists were accustomed to tell…

But how much does our industry get to claim unintentional?

Were we incompetent? Naive? Uninformed? Blinded by good intentions, optimism, greed?

If celebrities who endorsed ftx are now in hot water - should tech influencers such as major VC firms also be held liable?

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#38

Post by NegativeLatency »

tmpz22 wrote: post #36
wpietri wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And unfortunately I think the tech industry unintentionally enabled it in a few ways. The internet/mobile boom was a real leap for humanity. (Not an unmixed one, any more than the printing press was. But a real leap nonetheless.) This left a lot investors looking for the Next Big Thing. I think it made regulators very cautious of possibly harming something that could be The Future. Journalists were accustomed to tell…

But how much does our industry get to claim unintentional? Were we incompetent? Naive? Uninformed? Blinded by good intentions, optimism, greed? If celebrities who endorsed ftx are now in hot water - should tech influencers such as major VC firms also be held liable?

Very much intentional, especially after the first couple rounds of fraud/theft/bad behavior, it's obvious that the downsides and risks were known, but the promotion of the tech kept being promoted.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#40

Post by pdntspa »

JohnFen wrote: post #27
shagymoe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As noted by another poster, all transactions cost someone something on every monetary network. You're also completely ignoring all the benefits miners provide by securing the network etc... Celcius, FTX, et al the many thousands of shitcoins are all scams or pyramid schemes without merit. Bitcoin, despite that fact that early adopters profit greatly, has many benefits to individuals and society as a whole but many pe…

> but many people have simply closed themselves off to the possibility because they're unwilling, for mostly selfish reasons, to even consider the benefits. And many people have considered the benefits and have rejected the scheme anyway. I'm curious, though... what do you mean by "selfish reasons"? That implies that such people are making a decision that disadvantages others in order to give themselves an advantage.…

"Selfish reasons" is how markets work. Economists call it "Rational Self-Interest"
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