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Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

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Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#131

Post by mint2 »

lolinder wrote: post #79
atum47 wrote: post #69

Netflix is such a crook. I had cancelled my subscription a while ago. They gave me the rest of the month to watch (since i already paid that month). Well, I had cancelled because I don't watch anymore. Guess what? Since it was a family plan, my father end up watching on his house, in another city. So Netflix renew the subscription. Fun right? I get a message everytime my card gets charged, that's why I noticed I was…

Do you know the details of what happened here? Unless you know otherwise, it sounds like your father probably ended up clicking the "renew subscription now" button when prompted, not that simply logging in triggered the charge. I'm ready to believe that the renewal prompt was heavily geared towards making it easy to renew, and Netflix should be required to make it equally easy to cancel, but unless you know he didn't…

I cancelled Amazon prime a couple years ago and ran into the same issue. It was absurd frankly.

I went through the cancellation process got a cancellation confirmation email and then still got billed at the end of the month. I called and they did reverse the charges and told me it had happened because a behind the scenes box was checked for automatic payments - I scoured the page to see if that was a user facing option and it was nowhere. Cancelling but continuing payments simply makes no sense.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#132

Post by katbyte »

sitkack wrote: post #110
lolinder wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the details of what happened here? Unless you know otherwise, it sounds like your father probably ended up clicking the "renew subscription now" button when prompted, not that simply logging in triggered the charge. I'm ready to believe that the renewal prompt was heavily geared towards making it easy to renew, and Netflix should be required to make it equally easy to cancel, but unless you know he didn't…

No the onus is not on the customer to not step on the landmine.

We should not enable and allow companies to do shitty things via dark patterns just to make a quick buck.

For one I don’t want to spend my life dealing with every underhanded attempt to take my money and two kids elderly and the vulnerable are the ones who fall prey to it and usually the least able to absorb the financial cost.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#133

Post by dghlsakjg »

tuxychandru wrote: post #119

Why is it still the norm in the US to allow companies to charge their customers whenever they please, without the customers having any control? In India, businesses are required to get a consent, at the time of subscription, to charge the customer on a recurring basis. This is called an e-mandate and requires multi-factor authentication to create. The card holder can cancel the mandate online, through their bank, wit…

When you sign up, you are agreeing to the contract ("I agree to the terms and conditions"). Those terms and conditions legally dictate what you are agreeing to and how you will be charged, and what conditions are necessary to break that contract.

They aren't allowed to charge you whenever they please, without customer control, they have to abide by the contract. Unfortunately, most people don't read the contract, and companies put ridiculous terms in there that people happily agree to.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#134

Post by spacemadness »

tuxychandru wrote: post #119

Why is it still the norm in the US to allow companies to charge their customers whenever they please, without the customers having any control? In India, businesses are required to get a consent, at the time of subscription, to charge the customer on a recurring basis. This is called an e-mandate and requires multi-factor authentication to create. The card holder can cancel the mandate online, through their bank, wit…

Because the stock price must go up at any cost, and part of that cost is lobbying to remove both worker protections and consumer protections.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#135

Post by synetic »

RGBCube wrote: post #113
atahanacar wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For more context, prior to this, ISPs would force you to send them a cancellation notice over fax (which nobody has) if you wanted to cancel your subscription, even though they would come to your house to sign the contracts when first subscribing. There exists a law that states "cancellation can't be harder than subscription" and if you intend to cancel a subscription but an easier way is not provided, you aren't leg…

> Also, "you can sue them" in this context means "you can use e-Devlet to sue a company online, without having to leave your house". e-Devlet is awesome in this regard, I am still suprised lots of more developed countries don't have anything similar. It is like a swiss knife for healthcare, financial and legal services. The e-Devlet app is also pretty fast and the webpage does not suck. Though I wish the signup proce…

Having something this awesome in the U.S. would cut out so many billions of dollars of profit that there is zero chance of it ever being implemented in my lifetime. In the U.S. the purpose of government and regulations are to make it easier for entrenched companies to make a buck. Unfortunately for the citizenry just about all the low hanging fruit in terms of providing a government service to make lives easier and/or less costly have entrenched businesses siphoning money from people.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#136

Post by dylan604 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #126
blitz_skull wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure they directly stated it—the consumer is being coerced. Deceptive tactics to make it hard to stop paying for something you don't want is coercive and deceptive behavior.

Yes, but that isn't extortion. Making something overly difficult is different than threatening or using force.

Ah, I see you've never been sent to a collections agency for charges you didn't make.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#137

Post by dghlsakjg »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #40
glimshe wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subscription is a recurrent commitment that you sign up for through a contract. They cancel it automatically because they don't want to bother collecting the money - it's expensive to do so and will lead to permanent churn. But they can; it's your problem to fix the payment method to cover your monthly/yearly commitment. All they have to do is to keep the service available and put something in the contract to tha…

Netflix is not a basic utility. The only thing they have in common are similar billing intervals. But that’s kind of beside the point. When you sign up for a subscription, they only commitment you have made is for the chosen billing interval. If it’s a month you’ve committed for a month, if three years then you’ve committed for three years. But you have not in any way shape or form committed to a single second beyond…

It depends entirely on the terms and conditions that you agreed to.

It is entirely possible to sign up for a paid-monthly perpetual subscription that is much harder to cancel than "Just stop paying".

Gyms are kind of famous for doing this.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#138

Post by didsomeonesay »

Subscription providers will be as shameless as allowed by law. Or worse.

I try to cancel subscriptions immidiately after signing up when i only want the service for a limited time.

For an Italian newspaper's online subscription, after contacting them for cancellation via web form, my family was informed: you have to call a number and that cancellations will only be accepted 1 day before the end of the subscription.

Let me re-state that: you have to remember, one year after signing up, to call that number within a 24 hour window (maybe less, depending on their office hours), reach somebody, and hope for their honesty in confirming the cancellation, because your have no proof that you did so. Or you are locked in for another year.

Luckily, I had used PayPal as subscription payment method, wich has a separate web interface for cancellation. And also remembered the call after one year, for good measure.

But what a disrespect for consumers! Quite surprised this was apparently legal in Italy (we don't live there, it was an educational subscription).

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#139

Post by synetic »

andsoitis wrote: post #91
Luctct wrote: post #76

The issue is so simple. The companies claim that it would impose heavy costs on them. Well. So it either costs the companies or it costs the consumer. But the consumer is exercising their free choice while the companies are ignoring said choice and forcing them to pay for something they don't want. That's textbook extortion. Easy solution: impose crippling fines or maybe a little prison sentence here and there for ex…

> Easy solution: impose crippling fines or maybe a little prison sentence here and there for extortion. Why not? That's what it is. How is it extortion? Who is being coerced and how?

You are correct on the pedantic point of whether or not it is “extortion” under existing laws. Laws can be changed and definitions changed. Or use a different term. The essence of the point is clear. Why nitpick on whether or not “extortion” is the correct word?

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#140

Post by mrweasel »

gwbas1c wrote: post #125

Why doesn't my credit card statement list subscriptions separately? How come I can't cancel through my credit card? It's great that the FTC is cracking down on this; but it seems like the credit card companies also should have some involvement too in making it easy to see what subscriptions you have, and making it easy to cancel subscriptions in a single location.

MasterCard have made a deal with a Danish company that provides you with a way of cancelling subscriptions, normally via your bank[1].

The credit cards companies seems to be onboard.

https://fintechmagazine.com/articles/mastercard-enters-subsc...

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