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Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

klangmag.co

121–130 of 286 posts

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, similar situation with: - My brother who is a writer while his wife works at an industrial job that pays exceedingly well - My friend who is an artist, whose husband owns an engineering firm with big medical device contracts - My other friend who is a nature photographer, whose husband works in tech - Yet another friend who is a musician, whose wife works in tech - Another friend who runs a dog shelter, whose h…

I'd like to see a list of jobs for which: 1. We generally value as a society 2. Two people both working the job and married to each other cannot afford to raise two children. There are some jobs which we romanticize as being this way (musicians and other artists being a big example), but are we okay with e.g. social workers all either starving, or from wealthy backgrounds?

Raising two children is a job in and of itself. Considering our children are the future's consumers, you'd think it would pay better.

Teaching in public schools would definitely fit in this category.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#122
post #11

Reminds me of a couple of married friends of mine. The wife played a classical musical instrument (e.g., not an electric guitar) and had her sights set on being a professional. While working towards that she did a lot of teaching/practising/etc, and her students would often say something along the lines of "I'm so envious of all this time you have to practice music! How are you able to do it?!" and her reply was alwa…

I know a bunch of classical musicians, and while they study and work hard they all have steady gigs for one or more ensembles & orchestra's. From the outside it feels somewhat more doable to be a pro , then a band or solo-artist, since there are quite a few orchestra's around that hire people on a stable basis. Spots are limited, but it's not super hard.

I studied and played classical into college during my engineering degree and have some insight into the realities of the profession - it's much harder than that and the pay for those stable gigs are oftentimes less than $300 / month. You're looking at one of the classic professional survivorship bias that I thought even the layman understood very well. Firstly, orchestras are in dire straights currently where programs are oftentimes supported by movie and pop media performances (see: National Symphony Orchestra playing Fantasia, Danny Elfman scores, and even freakin' Super Mario Brothers). This is a similar situation to ballet and theatre - legacy performance media I guess I'd call them. These orchestras don't pay much at all and most of the money classical musicians make are from lessons, typically the children of fairly affluent professionals, including from tech, finance, real estate, and other usual suspects of said caste. I saw grad students have to skip meals and beg and plead students to continue lessons to eat while I went off to recruiting events sponsored by tech companies where I ate food constantly and I never stopped feeling guilty even after inviting some friends to avoid pizza waste.

Some very lucky others that do well are from multiple generations of musicians that were essentially born, bred, and raised to be among the world's best and live and breathe music. There was no way I could ever compete with these kinds of folks and the hard life I saw so many talented people including professors that _are_ established after decades to live a very modest life made it clear to me that it wasn't something I should do for a living despite how much I love and respect it all. My role I feel is to support these folks now, so I go to shows, buy merch at the show, etc. and try not to take up space or attention too much and let people do what they do while trying to show appreciation for the work I was too chickenshit to ever do.

The arts and now entertainment fields are very much "tournament" style careers where given very limited public attention the winners take basically all and the remainder struggle quite a lot. It's nothing like professional fields like tech, accounting, medicine, law, or trades like construction, hospitality. In fact, any field that becomes more mass market-driven seems to become substantially more "tournament" style which has greatly impacted sex work - a top n% take an increasingly higher percentage away from an elastic but fundamentally highly dynamic demand.

The misattributed quote "find what you love and let it kill you" is the typical path of the career musician like most arts. I prefer to at least have some money to have more options to make it more fun on the way without resorting to the trap that is recreational substances.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#123

>> If anyone should have a shot in the various New York music scenes first and foremost, it should be local kids like Billy.If anyone should have a shot in the various New York music scenes first and foremost, it should be local kids like Billy. New York? A city founded on repeated waves of immigration. The city that put "give us your tired masses" on a big statue in the harbor. New York is not a city setup for local…

Came in here to mention something similar.

Seems wishful thinking that New York would owe something to anybody that grew up there. If anything, growing up there should give you the opportunity to have a network already, that would be a local's leg up... from kids you grew up with, to people you practiced music with etc.

This might also be a case of a naive perspective from Billy thinking that the work is all that matters. Nope. Having connections also matters. Do you know bar owners? Do you know venues? Have you done someone a favor that they can pay back? That should be the a "local kid's" advantage. Maybe Billy just didn't form those connections or capitalize on that.

Beyond not feeling bad for taking a side-job, maybe the advice should have been: Network. Get out there, meet people, do favors for people, help them and get help back eventually.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honor is what separates men from animals. We all get to choose which we are.

if that's true, then the animals are in charge. you'll be miserable for the honor of being enslaved by beast? the GP hit the nail on the head saying, > If you start looking at the law in terms of "how much does it cost to do whatever I want", then you are now effectively playing by the same rules as those who seek to control your life. laws are for the powerless.

>laws are for the powerless.

But understanding that doesn't give you any power back. Knowing that you can just pay large fines to do illegal business things doesn't help someone who isn't running a business or can afford to pay those large fines

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Athletes as well. I don't see how a "husband works in tech" answer is a letdown though, as really, what's a marriage for except creating the circumstances from which to grow. Over the decades my tech jobs have supported grad students, authors, craftswomen, actresses, athletes, among others and it was a pleasure watching them level up and grow. If I were ever to be married, earning enough to support arts or athletic p…

> what's a marriage for except creating the circumstances from which to grow This is absolutely not in line with how most people I interact with seem to view marriage nowadays, especially not my fellow university students back when I attended. From my perspective I think younger people mostly seem to view marriage as restricting, or backward and outdated, not an opportunity for something better. I especially think yo…

> younger people don't like the idea that in order to have freedom to pursue the things you love, you might need to marry someone who supports you financially.

How many people have ever liked it? Hasn't it been one of the few avenues available for lots of people to pursue things they couldn't without financial help? What's a viable alternative?

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#126
post #51

> Knowing that the game is rigged is liberating! > how should you be expected to earn a living using their platforms unless you find a way to game the system? Do you have 20 smartphones lying around, per chance? This is the message I'd take away. Once you learn that the whole capitalist hellscape operates in approximately the same way, you can start to explicitly target its mechanisms in order to improve your life. H…

Honor is what separates men from animals. We all get to choose which we are.

What is moral and what is legal are different. There is overlap, but they are marketed as being the same thing. They are not.

I think you are mostly reacting to GP's word choice of "moral flexibility," and are missing the point.

Do the moral thing, but view the legal as pay-to-play.

A great example is parking tickets. Violating parking rules results in a fine and is not immoral in many situations.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#127
post #51

> Knowing that the game is rigged is liberating! > how should you be expected to earn a living using their platforms unless you find a way to game the system? Do you have 20 smartphones lying around, per chance? This is the message I'd take away. Once you learn that the whole capitalist hellscape operates in approximately the same way, you can start to explicitly target its mechanisms in order to improve your life. H…

Honor is what separates men from animals. We all get to choose which we are.

Choosing not to overturn the current abhorrent and unjust system is NOT honor.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#128
post #119
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're not understanding what commodities are. You're not understanding how some people use music. Does the supermarket care who the artist is? Not really. Do I care who the artist is? Not really, I just need dance music to keep part of my mind occupied so I can get into the zone easier; saccharine vocals help too, no substance please.

How would you feel about having the exact song playing on repeat every day of your life? Every movie, every scene. Same song in the background. Every first dance at a wedding, same song. Before a baseball game, standup and put your hand on your heart, same song. You’re indifferent right?

In the case that it's only one song, I'll be a little more picky. Same thing if you have to eat the same apple every day.

I'd probably just stop listening to music at that point. Or find some work where they're still running large collated copy jobs; those copy machines make some good beats.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#129
post #11

Reminds me of a couple of married friends of mine. The wife played a classical musical instrument (e.g., not an electric guitar) and had her sights set on being a professional. While working towards that she did a lot of teaching/practising/etc, and her students would often say something along the lines of "I'm so envious of all this time you have to practice music! How are you able to do it?!" and her reply was alwa…

Yeah, similar situation with: - My brother who is a writer while his wife works at an industrial job that pays exceedingly well - My friend who is an artist, whose husband owns an engineering firm with big medical device contracts - My other friend who is a nature photographer, whose husband works in tech - Yet another friend who is a musician, whose wife works in tech - Another friend who runs a dog shelter, whose h…

This is lots of people who work in nonprofit.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if that's true, then the animals are in charge. you'll be miserable for the honor of being enslaved by beast? the GP hit the nail on the head saying, > If you start looking at the law in terms of "how much does it cost to do whatever I want", then you are now effectively playing by the same rules as those who seek to control your life. laws are for the powerless.

Trying to justify acting like an animal means making that choice.

The only way to negotiate with animals is on their terms. When in Rome as they say...
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