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Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

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Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#111

Post by hecanjog »

jiggywiggy wrote: post #68
ipsi wrote: post #11

Reminds me of a couple of married friends of mine. The wife played a classical musical instrument (e.g., not an electric guitar) and had her sights set on being a professional. While working towards that she did a lot of teaching/practising/etc, and her students would often say something along the lines of "I'm so envious of all this time you have to practice music! How are you able to do it?!" and her reply was alwa…

I know a bunch of classical musicians, and while they study and work hard they all have steady gigs for one or more ensembles & orchestra's. From the outside it feels somewhat more doable to be a pro , then a band or solo-artist, since there are quite a few orchestra's around that hire people on a stable basis. Spots are limited, but it's not super hard.

It very much is super hard

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#112

Post by digging »

WalterBright wrote: post #73
bob1029 wrote: post #51

> Knowing that the game is rigged is liberating! > how should you be expected to earn a living using their platforms unless you find a way to game the system? Do you have 20 smartphones lying around, per chance? This is the message I'd take away. Once you learn that the whole capitalist hellscape operates in approximately the same way, you can start to explicitly target its mechanisms in order to improve your life. H…

Honor is what separates men from animals. We all get to choose which we are.

if that's true, then the animals are in charge. you'll be miserable for the honor of being enslaved by beast?

the GP hit the nail on the head saying,

> If you start looking at the law in terms of "how much does it cost to do whatever I want", then you are now effectively playing by the same rules as those who seek to control your life.

laws are for the powerless.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#113

Post by sandworm101 »

>> If anyone should have a shot in the various New York music scenes first and foremost, it should be local kids like Billy.If anyone should have a shot in the various New York music scenes first and foremost, it should be local kids like Billy.

New York? A city founded on repeated waves of immigration. The city that put "give us your tired masses" on a big statue in the harbor. New York is not a city setup for locals. It is and has always been a dynamic city for new people doing new things. Being "local" isn't the advantage it is in other areas.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#114

Post by wing-_-nuts »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #90
softfalcon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, similar situation with: - My brother who is a writer while his wife works at an industrial job that pays exceedingly well - My friend who is an artist, whose husband owns an engineering firm with big medical device contracts - My other friend who is a nature photographer, whose husband works in tech - Yet another friend who is a musician, whose wife works in tech - Another friend who runs a dog shelter, whose h…

"What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend?" "Homeless."

I had to constantly remind myself, when my college friends were going off to do startups that they wouldn't be sleeping under a bridge if they failed.

Even something as simple as a supportive family is a huge leg up compared to those who don't have it.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#115

Post by fiprofessor »

Nice essay, but some of the contemporary examples in this paragraph about the independenlty wealthy are not really that compelling:

I’m not saying wealthy people can’t make incredible artists. Without Marcel Duchamp’s monthly allowance from his father throughout his adult life, we would never have Dada. Giacinto Scelsi was literally the heir and Duke of La Spezia castle estate. Something more contemporary? Grimes’ mother was a Crown Prosecutor, the Canadian equivalent of a District Attorney, in Vancouver. Frankie Cosmos’ dad is the guy from Wild Wild West, no, not Will Smith, the other guy. Julian Casablancas’ father ran New York’s top super modeling agency while young Julian hung out at the kid’s table with Ivanka Trump at Christmas time. The list goes on.

The argument is supposed to be that these kids didn't have to worry about paying the rent, so they were able to devote more time to their craft. But I don't think some of the contemporary examples listed were necessarily like that.

Take Grimes -- a Crown Prosecutor is a public servant, so you can look up their average pay ranges: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/careers-myhr/all-employee... . That's definitely a solid middle class life, but not exactly generational wealth. Now, compared to a poor kid who has to take on jobs in high school to support their family, I'm sure she had more time and less stress in her teenage years which let her practice more, but there are lots and lots of middle class children who have that level of free time which they devote to all sorts of extracurriculars.

Moreover, Grimes, Casablancas, and Cosmos blew up when they were in their very early 20s: Cosmos released her debut studio album at 20, Grimes at 22, Casablancas at 23. So, despite any family wealth they may have had, it's not like they spent years and years of their adult lives living off their parents' support, or at least not any more so than hundreds of thousands of college students do every year. Of course, they had it easier than kids who cannot even afford to go to college, or who are working 20 hours a week to pay their way, but I'm not sure it's at all comparable to Duchamp or Scelsi.

Maybe there's an argument that social connections helped them to get their record deals, but the argument presented doesn't seem to apply.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#116

Post by sbazerque »

dataviz1000 wrote: post #64

“In the deepest hour of the night, confess to yourself that you would die if you were forbidden to write. And look deep into your heart where it spreads its roots, the answer, and ask yourself, must I write?” ― Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet Reminds me of that quote. Rilke, a poet, was an apprentice to, Auguste Rodin, a sculptor, who taught Rilke how to be an artist. Although different disciplines, the n…

Rilke is a must!!! I loved his Duino Elegies.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#117

Post by orbz »

JSavageOne wrote: post #38
bruce511 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Music is a commodity. There's already more music available to let my playlist run for years without repeats. Plus it's never been easier for folk to create, and publish, new music. With endless supply comes diminishing unit value. So, not to be brutal, but playing music is not an especially valuable thing, and so people really don't need to pay much for it. Ditto for writing books, making ceramics, pretty much anythi…

> but playing music is not an especially valuable thing Sure if your definition of value is "income generated".

Money is pretty much an abstract way to represent value though.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#118

Post by bluefirebrand »

motohagiography wrote: post #102
ipsi wrote: post #11

Reminds me of a couple of married friends of mine. The wife played a classical musical instrument (e.g., not an electric guitar) and had her sights set on being a professional. While working towards that she did a lot of teaching/practising/etc, and her students would often say something along the lines of "I'm so envious of all this time you have to practice music! How are you able to do it?!" and her reply was alwa…

Athletes as well. I don't see how a "husband works in tech" answer is a letdown though, as really, what's a marriage for except creating the circumstances from which to grow. Over the decades my tech jobs have supported grad students, authors, craftswomen, actresses, athletes, among others and it was a pleasure watching them level up and grow. If I were ever to be married, earning enough to support arts or athletic p…

> what's a marriage for except creating the circumstances from which to grow

This is absolutely not in line with how most people I interact with seem to view marriage nowadays, especially not my fellow university students back when I attended.

From my perspective I think younger people mostly seem to view marriage as restricting, or backward and outdated, not an opportunity for something better.

I especially think younger people don't like the idea that in order to have freedom to pursue the things you love, you might need to marry someone who supports you financially. Otherwise you will be too busy financially supporting yourself to have that same freedom.

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#119

Post by CPLX »

toast0 wrote: post #49
CPLX wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not understanding what commodities are. An apple (or type of apple, to be specific) can be a commodity because I don't care or who which orchard made the apple, and I am completely indifferent to the apples of various orchards when I go to the supermarket. Recorded music isn't like that, at all. I care if the song is Fly Me To The Moon sung by Frank Sinatra or Stairway to Heaven sung by Frank Oz using the voic…

> You're not understanding what commodities are. You're not understanding how some people use music. Does the supermarket care who the artist is? Not really. Do I care who the artist is? Not really, I just need dance music to keep part of my mind occupied so I can get into the zone easier; saccharine vocals help too, no substance please.

How would you feel about having the exact song playing on repeat every day of your life?

Every movie, every scene. Same song in the background.

Every first dance at a wedding, same song.

Before a baseball game, standup and put your hand on your heart, same song.

You’re indifferent right?

Re: Lifers, Dayjobbers, and the Independently Wealthy: A Letter to a Former Student

#120

Post by WalterBright »

digging wrote: post #112
WalterBright wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honor is what separates men from animals. We all get to choose which we are.

if that's true, then the animals are in charge. you'll be miserable for the honor of being enslaved by beast? the GP hit the nail on the head saying, > If you start looking at the law in terms of "how much does it cost to do whatever I want", then you are now effectively playing by the same rules as those who seek to control your life. laws are for the powerless.

Trying to justify acting like an animal means making that choice.
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