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Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

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Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#521

Post by hot_gril »

dig1 wrote: post #300
jacknews wrote: post #45

The problem is the desktop situation is such a mess. Do you go with a gtk or qt desktop and which one? And then X11 which is ancient and creaky, or wayland which is fatally nerfed in design (if not it's entire development philosophy) even when it does do what you need which is far from always? OTOH windows is becoming adware/spyware and macos is becoming big brother lockdown-wear, so maybe it is time for linux to shi…

IMHO, this is more a choice overload [1] than a technical problem. You can pick whatever distro (another choice overload) and start using the default desktop environment, which is more than enough. Qt vs. gtk for desktop development? Use whatever you think will work for you, they are stable enough, and you can use almost any (even remotely popular) language under the sun for development. Java/Scala/Kotlin + Swing (or…

The other side of overchoice is that the community won't focus on maintaining, supporting, and optimizing one of them in particular, which does become a technical problem as old things fall into disrepair. Even sticking with Ubuntu meant having your entire UI change for no reason a few times. Whereas Mac OS is smoother than all the Linux DEs, isn't too different to use vs 1-2 decades ago, and you can search "how to do X on Mac" pretty easily.

Every Linux desktop user says "use what works best for you, we're all different," but I really don't buy that we're so different to warrant multiple competing DEs / window managers / whatever on top of the same OS.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#523

Post by philwelch »

criddell wrote: post #348
nine_k wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like macOS, that is, all locked down, with abilities to customize things revoked with every release, with most software paid, and only available on a narrow choice of pretty expensive (though powerful) hardware? No, not really. You can't make things smooth and flexible at the same time, it takes too much effort. You can't support a ton of varied hardware and make everything work smoothly in every case; it again would…

IMHO, desktop Linux could use a little bit of locking down and progress is slowly being made in that direction. It feels a little bonkers that in 2023, Flatpak or something like it isn’t the default way software is installed. That calculator you just installed should not have access to your camera or microphone or file system. That weather app may need your location, but you should be able to grant access to sensitiv…

> It feels a little bonkers that in 2023, Flatpak or something like it isn’t the default way software is installed. That calculator you just installed should not have access to your camera or microphone or file system. That weather app may need your location, but you should be able to grant access to sensitive resources always, never, or only after asking.

This approach was widely ridiculed in the Vista days. Maybe I’m old but I still think it’s absurd security theatre that trades off a ton of usability for a tiny amount of imaginary security. It annoys me to no end that on macOS, for instance, opening a terminal emulator and trying to `ls` inside my home directory freezes on a security popup that wants me to allow my terminal emulator to access my home directory.

If you want a locked down appliance, there’s always Chromebooks. Which run a linux kernel btw.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#524

Post by hot_gril »

jacknews wrote: post #328
Gordonjcp wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter which desktop you pick, they're all the same. If you went to buy a car, would you be fatally paralysed by indecision at seeing two different makes that looked ever so slightly different parked side-by-side? Of course not. That would be idiotic.

Right, all those car review mags, test-drives, manufacturer design language, not to mention handling characteristics, performance, etc, is all really stupid when all everyone wants is just to go from A to B.

Going from A to B is more complicated than it sounds when you're considering reliability 5-10 years into the future, but the reviews don't go into that either. All you can really do is pick a reputable brand.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#525

Post by hot_gril »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #473
moffkalast wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if your use case is say, off-roading, and you decide all cars are the same and end up with a minivan in a ditch you kind of did that shit to yourself.

So what's the equivalent for choosing a distro? 99.999% of people don't need to go off road, and only need a bog standard desktop distro.

Most people don't need to choose a Linux distro at all, cause Windows or Mac works fine for them and will never have obscure problems.

The car analogy is that you've got the boring Toyota (Windows), the boring but somewhat nicer Honda (Mac), the slightly more efficient CVT Mitsubishi (typical Linux) that needs some major component (X11 or w/e) replaced in 2 years and fewer people will know how to deal with it, or the same Mitsubishi except with stanced wheels and degen exhaust setup to be cooler (Arch Linux w/ XFCE or w/e).

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#526

Post by RAM-bunctious »

deadbyte wrote: post #403
jdietrich wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people are stuck on Windows or MacOS because of one killer app - Photoshop, a CAD/CAM package, a video or audio editor, or some proprietary bit of business software. Many of these applications have tens or hundreds of millions of dollars worth of dev time invested in them and it just isn't realistic to expect an open source alternative to compete. I'm in that boat, but I don't especially mind. I run Windows…

I hope that Photopea (browser-based Photoshop) can gain traction to break that dependency.

I know the evidence is that plenty of people are totally happy with applications running in a browser -- Office Online, Google Sheets, etc. are compelling evidence -- but I strongly prefer dedicated and native applications for something I'll be spending a lot of time using.

I'm not even necessarily blaming this on the performance difference, although that is a pertinent topic, but just the mental structure of something I'm using living in a browser tab rather than actually running on the computer.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#527

Post by ChatGTP »

pjmlp wrote: post #449
ChatGTP wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been using for 15 years, I've never sat there and worried about gtk or qt, Maybe wayland or X11, but I've just naturally moved to wayland? Just install something like Fedora, and you won't worry about it, it will just work. I personally hate Ubuntu btw Canonical is just not for me. I have no idea how it's so popular. Personally Fedora or NixOS are just so superior I don't know why anyone bothers with anything else.

Because it mostly works with proprietary drivers without any religious issues.

Canonical has it's own religion though, so you're trading one problem for another.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#528

Post by smaudet »

TillE wrote: post #346
arc-in-space wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The change from say one version of Windows to the next is tiny Huh?! That's bullshit. I had recently tried to fix something on family's PC that upgraded itself to Win11 and had absolutely no clue how to navigate all the new settings panels even though I use 10 near daily.

You use the search box, just like you find settings in macOS / iOS / etc. No sane person is expected to memorize configuration GUIs these days.

Yes, but this is in counterpoint to the claim (paraphrasing) that "the operating doesn't change much only every 5 years".

If you go a couple months often that's enough for some things to be drastically different in Windows land. In a year its a whole new OS.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#529

Post by midoridensha »

eythian wrote: post #451
midoridensha wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Would you rather live in an effectively single-party state like Singapore where everything is shiny but you get caned for spitting gum on the street (MacOS) This sounds like a good place to live for me, because I don't spit gum on streets and wouldn't want to live around people who do. What kind of disgusting person would do such a thing? And who chews gum these days? Personally, I think this is a terrible analogy.…

The Dutch government literally collapsed a couple of days ago.

So there's anarchy in the streets in Amsterdam now?

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#530

Post by smaudet »

bruce511 wrote: post #118
smaudet wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm I don't find this true at all for really any of the systems. If you stick to windows xp or roll your own Linux distros maybe this is true, but I barely know how to use any windows box. Bunch of black registry magic and constantly changing UI nonsense, literally Google and sometimes msdn are how I survive there. Ubuntu/Fedora all go through fits of hipness and constantly change how things are done. Config files on…

The change from say one version of Windows to the next is tiny, and happens every 5 years or so. Changing from one OS to another is orders of magnitude more complex. As you point out above jumping between them is painful. Your job may require you to do that, but you're a tiny sliver of the work-force, never mind everyone else. My book-keeper has never encountered the Windows Registry. You're thinking of the OS as an…

"The change from say one version of Windows to the next is tiny, and happens every 5 years or so."

This is simply not true - the OS can and does change with monthly patches. Windows and Linux are both worse than Android or iOS/OSX in this regards I find, but that's to due with vendor preference not an underlying guarantee.

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