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Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

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Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#341

Post by moffkalast »

jacknews wrote: post #45

The problem is the desktop situation is such a mess. Do you go with a gtk or qt desktop and which one? And then X11 which is ancient and creaky, or wayland which is fatally nerfed in design (if not it's entire development philosophy) even when it does do what you need which is far from always? OTOH windows is becoming adware/spyware and macos is becoming big brother lockdown-wear, so maybe it is time for linux to shi…

Well for Windows users the only real answer is KDE, since it's almost the same in terms of interface and has a similarly high degree of configurability (imo a baseline requirement for any desktop OS). Kubuntu is pretty good, with only a handful of incredibly annoying things, compared to a never ending river of incredibly annoying things on GDM3.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#342

Post by trelane »

chx wrote: post #269
hnlmorg wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I will use the OS I like and others will use the OS they prefer. It’s called choice. What stung before was that people were forced to use Windows because of lock-ins, software compatibility, etc. That doesn’t really exist any more. If there is one good thing about web apps, it’s that browsers are now the application run time and browsers are more cross platform than any software libraries that have come before it…

> That doesn’t really exist any more. But the lack of driver support still does. Linux on a modern laptop is just full of headaches. I mean, https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen7-7840u this is typical: GNOME doesn't work, graphical glitches... In my own experience, operating MFC devices over several years is a nightmare, Bluetooth is problematic as well, some proprietary VPNs do not have Linux clients which migh…

> I mean, https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen7-7840u

So, they took a cutting edge Windows PC, slapped Linux on it, and it didn't work well.

How well did OSX do when they tried it? Clearly, OSX isn't ready for the desktop! No wonder nobody runs it!

Modern computers are complex enough that they can work well with Windows, OSX, or Linux, but they don't work well with more than one of them (unless the designers work really hard). See, for example, how to reboot: https://mjg59.livejournal.com/137313.html

If you want to run Linux on a computer, buy it preinstalled, with support. Anything else is an exercise in chasing down small glitches, as you describe. (This happens for Windows too! The difference is that the laptop vendor has a team of people (the system integration team) to fix the issues, either by modifying drivers, modifying the firmware, or having the ODM change the hardware. If you slap Linux on some random bit of Windows kit, you get to be the system integration team, but with only one of three avenues open to you to fix the glitches. And that only halfway, since you cant get the OEM or ODM to give you the time of day. And that's assuming you're a proficient kernel hacker.)

Slapping Linux on a Windows box is a mug's game. The only way to win is not to play.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#343

Post by TillE »

stodor89 wrote: post #63
laserbeam wrote: post #34

Every once in a while I'm tempted to switch back to Linux (I used to have that as my desktop between 10 and 15 years ago), but then I remember: - My DJ software (which I pay for) is not supported at all on Linux (likewise true for most common music production software). - The Affinity suite (which I paid for) is not supported on Linux. - The best debugger I can find (remedybg, which I paid for) doesn't work there. -…

I too occasionally feel the urge to go back to Linux, but then I remember I'm a game developer. Oof.

Godot is primarily developed on Linux, but I recently tried it out on Ubuntu (NVIDIA drivers) to check compatibility, and it was shockingly laggy. Worse than macOS, and far worse than Windows, where it runs quite well.

Maybe there was something about my configuration I could've tweaked to mitigate the lag, but I have zero interest in fiddling with Linux. That stuff's fun if your goal is to learn about the OS, but absolutely intolerable if you just wanna get work done.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#344

Post by moffkalast »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #306
jacknews wrote: post #45

The problem is the desktop situation is such a mess. Do you go with a gtk or qt desktop and which one? And then X11 which is ancient and creaky, or wayland which is fatally nerfed in design (if not it's entire development philosophy) even when it does do what you need which is far from always? OTOH windows is becoming adware/spyware and macos is becoming big brother lockdown-wear, so maybe it is time for linux to shi…

It doesn't really matter which desktop you pick, they're all the same. If you went to buy a car, would you be fatally paralysed by indecision at seeing two different makes that looked ever so slightly different parked side-by-side? Of course not. That would be idiotic.

Well if your use case is say, off-roading, and you decide all cars are the same and end up with a minivan in a ditch you kind of did that shit to yourself.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#345

Post by moffkalast »

kallistisoft wrote: post #193
pjmlp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck trying to run a proper GNU/Linux on those Android devices. Actually tbere are plenty of other options for embedded. As for the server room, UNIX was already the winner there anyway, since the 1990's.

> Good luck trying to run a proper GNU/Linux on those Android devices. The Termux App [ https://termux.dev/en/ ] provides a full linux terminal with zsh, emacs, and apt based package manager. I've been using it in lieu of creating full apks for personal projects -- much easier to spin up a database and local webserver via ssh on my phone than to build a proper app package. I find it fits most of my linux on the go ne…

Does that actually use the underlying system or is it just a virtual thing though? It calls itself an emulator after all. Windows can run an emulated Legend of Zelda ROM but that doesn't make it a NES.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#346

Post by TillE »

arc-in-space wrote: post #265
bruce511 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The change from say one version of Windows to the next is tiny, and happens every 5 years or so. Changing from one OS to another is orders of magnitude more complex. As you point out above jumping between them is painful. Your job may require you to do that, but you're a tiny sliver of the work-force, never mind everyone else. My book-keeper has never encountered the Windows Registry. You're thinking of the OS as an…

> The change from say one version of Windows to the next is tiny Huh?! That's bullshit. I had recently tried to fix something on family's PC that upgraded itself to Win11 and had absolutely no clue how to navigate all the new settings panels even though I use 10 near daily.

You use the search box, just like you find settings in macOS / iOS / etc. No sane person is expected to memorize configuration GUIs these days.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#347

Post by jorvi »

bruce511 wrote: post #68
DiabloD3 wrote: post #49

I wonder why they keep making these articles. Linux is on more computers both today and all of the computers ever made put together than any other OS. It is on virtually all servers on the Internet, the majority OS on phones, its in many TVs and STBs and streaming sticks, its one of the few OSes ever in space, its one of the few OSes ever on Mars, and it is also the OS behind ChromeOS (which that article mistakenly b…

And yet not having a presence on the desktop stings a bit doesn't it :). You can conquer the world, dominate every space and yet there's thus little voice inside saying "but you're not good enough. See over there, in that one space, you're a weakling. " Welcome to the human condition.

By kilogram, there's more ants than humans on the world yet no one says ants dominate the world.

Perception matters :)

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#348

Post by criddell »

nine_k wrote: post #131
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s not pretend it wouldn’t be good if I could run Linux on the desktop the way we run MacOS. It would be great to only have to learn one OS and it worked really smoothly.

Like macOS, that is, all locked down, with abilities to customize things revoked with every release, with most software paid, and only available on a narrow choice of pretty expensive (though powerful) hardware? No, not really. You can't make things smooth and flexible at the same time, it takes too much effort. You can't support a ton of varied hardware and make everything work smoothly in every case; it again would…

IMHO, desktop Linux could use a little bit of locking down and progress is slowly being made in that direction.

It feels a little bonkers that in 2023, Flatpak or something like it isn’t the default way software is installed. That calculator you just installed should not have access to your camera or microphone or file system. That weather app may need your location, but you should be able to grant access to sensitive resources always, never, or only after asking.

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#349

Post by jorvi »

Gareth321 wrote: post #338
bruce511 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Operating systems have a really high degree of lock-in. Such that while you -can- change OS, there's simply no incentive to do so. That's why you're still running the same OS you always have. [1] You accumulate software yes, but you also accumulate habits and knowledge. Changing OS means discarding all the accumulated knowledge, which 0% of "normal users" want to do. Throw in the change in software, ending up with at…

> You accumulate software yes, but you also accumulate habits and knowledge. Changing OS means discarding all the accumulated knowledge, which 0% of "normal users" want to do. I only ever hear Linux users make this argument. Mac users are confident enough in MacOS UX that they know it’s not a significant barrier to transition. The same is not true of Linux. So many solutions to problems require opening the CLI, and t…

> Mac users are confident enough in MacOS UX that they know it’s not a significant barrier to transition

I bought my mother a Macbook during the Snow Leopard era and we sold it after 2 months because she could absolutely not get used to the UI, since she had been using Windows since basically forever.

So much for "intuitive UI".

Re: Linux has achieved a 3% desktop market share

#350

Post by cmilton »

resolutebat wrote: post #293
jacquesm wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What stung before was that people were forced to use Windows because of lock-ins, software compatibility, etc. That doesn’t really exist any more. That's a funny conclusion to make. In the business world that still exists and even my kids are forced into the Microsoft eco-system by their school because the software they insist you run (for which perfectly good web alternatives exist) only runs on windows.

True, but increasingly marginal. Many schools have adopted Chromebooks (Linux in disguise) and even the MS Office suite has largely moved online.

I agree. Google Classroom exploded during the pandemic in my local school systems.

Enterprises are moving to Workspace from 365. I hope they drive each other's prices to the bottom. :)

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