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Wayland on OpenBSD

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Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#181

Post by 1MachineElf »

misterio7 wrote: post #120
pravus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time. I'm currently streaming X11 over my LAN which is something I can't do with Wayland. Give me a fucking solution instead of telling me I'm doing it wrong. Yes, I'm tired of seeing all this bullshit, too. I'll switch immediately when Wayland gives me want I need to make me productive. Until then, I'm absolutely sick of this cocky attitude.

Yes you can lol. I'm literally using WayVNC right now to work on my laptop from my desktop seamlessly

WayVNC is in not a real replacement for X11 application forwarding.

Waypipe is the solution.

Compare: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/eses/red_hat_enterpr....

With: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/eses/red_hat_enterpr...

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#182

Post by 1MachineElf »

omeid2 wrote: post #117
pravus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time. I'm currently streaming X11 over my LAN which is something I can't do with Wayland. Give me a fucking solution instead of telling me I'm doing it wrong. Yes, I'm tired of seeing all this bullshit, too. I'll switch immediately when Wayland gives me want I need to make me productive. Until then, I'm absolutely sick of this cocky attitude.

RDP.

RDP is in no way a replacement for X11 application forwarding.

Waypipe is the solution.

Compare: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/eses/red_hat_enterpr....

With: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/eses/red_hat_enterpr...

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#183

Post by CameronNemo »

Monsterovich wrote: post #164
CameronNemo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you are on hardware that does that not have this issue, but I had really bad screen tearing with an Intel iGPU running X11.

This looks like sabotage from the Wayland-centric mesa developers who didn't add TearFree to the core xorg modesetting driver because the older one had this feature. Use V-Sync in the compositor.

Where is your pull request? Don't you think it is more likely that graphics software developers are just proposing the best software they can offer? Why would they deliberately push bad software? Wouldn't that make their product offering worse, and also make their own experiences worse and future development more difficult?

I don't know the incentives are there for a conspiracy in this case.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#184

Post by 1MachineElf »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #7

We've been doing some BSD cross work with Nixpkgs. A hope is that if we can extend that to NixOS too, and then it should be quite easy to checkpoint and share work like this for anyone to reproduce and pick up the baton on.

Can you share any more information about the BSD cross work with Nixpkgs?

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#185

Post by bandrami »

babypuncher wrote: post #179
bandrami wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worked fine for X for decades now, so simply claiming "it's not a solution" is kind of silly. I get that people pretend they are afraid some nefarious program is going to scrape their screen, but since I don't use closed source software this just isn't a real worry. Also do keep in mind this is about more than global hotkeys; there are several accessibility paradigms that simply don't and can't work on Wayland.

> I get that people pretend they are afraid some nefarious program is going to scrape their screen, but since I don't use closed source software this just isn't a real worry. Do you personally audit the source code to every piece of software you run on your computer? Do you have the expertise necessary to even do that if you wanted to? FOSS isn't magically immune to security exploits. Everything we build should assum…

> Do you personally audit the source code to every piece of software you run on your computer?

No more than Wayland users have audited the process protection code.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#186

Post by nine_k »

rkangel wrote: post #165
Monsterovich wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's a screenshot of me sharing a window in firefox: You forgot to mention that it doesn't work without portals and Pipewire dependency, and portals have to be implemented individually for each DE. > I use global hotkeys to switch between keyboard layouts, see the screenshot. Works fine. Because the KDE developers went to a lot of effort to make it work. That doesn't mean it will work well in other DEs and that i…

You've moved the goalposts on this argument now. "$Thing is hard to implement on Wayland and requires quite a lot of effort by each DE"[1] is a very different argument to "$Thing doesn't work on Wayland". Pretty much everything you listed works well in Fedora with Gnome/Mutter. If the maintainers of the DEs are happy with the effort, then I don't see a problem? (unless you're a DE maintainer, in which case - fair eno…

If something requires effort from each DE / compositor to implement, it's not "implemented in Wayland", but rather Wayland does not preclude it from being implemented.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#187

Post by babypuncher »

bandrami wrote: post #185
babypuncher wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get that people pretend they are afraid some nefarious program is going to scrape their screen, but since I don't use closed source software this just isn't a real worry. Do you personally audit the source code to every piece of software you run on your computer? Do you have the expertise necessary to even do that if you wanted to? FOSS isn't magically immune to security exploits. Everything we build should assum…

> Do you personally audit the source code to every piece of software you run on your computer? No more than Wayland users have audited the process protection code.

You're not really addressing my argument here. Of course Wayland users don't audit the Wayland source code.

I was illustrating why Wayland's security paradigm is important. It doesn't assume all the apps it renders are safe. It can still (and probably does) have security holes, but it is already starting from a much more secure foundation than X11 ever had any hope of having.

Similarly, my web browser probably has not publicly known exploits that I haven't bothered to discover myself, but that doesn't mean I should be OK with using a browser that doesn't sandbox its javascript engine.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#188

Post by badsectoracula »

account42 wrote: post #172
badsectoracula wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> X11 also doesn't have all the features we'd like it to have, such as the ability to render frames without tearing What exactly do you mean? My Xorg setup can render frames without tearing just fine, both in video playback (VLC) and in games. TBH i don't really care about tearing (since it tends to come with input lag even on desktop usage) aside from videos, so i haven't looked much into it. However people are work…

TearFree has been working with the amdgpu DDX for ages btw. Zero tearing and with FreeSync the latency hit is negligible.

I am actually using amdgpu myself but i mentioned the modesetting driver since that is new development to show that people actually still work on that stuff.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#189

Post by rcxdude »

vetinari wrote: post #141
rcxdude wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you can understand why people are not so keen on moving to an unfinished system, then? Or at least one which has not yet reached parity with its predecessor for a large proportion of its users. Remember the excel effect: each feature which was previously implemented by snooping and injection may only have a small number of users, but there are many of them and most users will use at least one of them. If yo…

It is never finished; there's always something missing. It took X almost 4 decades to get where it is and during the ride it was abandoned as a mess. It was never finished either. We see also arguing that something is missing, while it was there for years (like screenshots and capture), or nitpicking on global shortcuts. Global shortcuts are so incredibly long tail feature, so pointing it out is actually a a good thi…

The "it's actually already there" effect is usually either one of two things: either poor communication, or poor rollout of actual support amongst apps. Both of those are hindered by a slow standardisation process. And I do wonder what makes you think global shortcuts are a long-tail feature: they're extremely commonly used! And app support is 100% key: it doesn't matter if wayland supports something if the apps don't actually use it!

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#190

Post by teekert »

bandrami wrote: post #155
teekert wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how I finally find my touchpad usable under wayland ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Notice I said clickpads. Touchpads work fine once you work around Wayland's bizarre fear of enabling tap-to-click.

Ah, I don't like tap-to-click, I always disable it, I need that clicky feeling, often I'll hook up a mouse as well :)
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