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Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

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Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#81

Post by j33zusjuice »

sandworm101 wrote: post #61
zo1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The big question is whether we want to live in a society that requires the police to randomly stop and frisk people in order to stop crime. There is crime, I don't think anyone can dispute that. Honestly, I personally have no problem with criminal-looking individuals being stopped and frisked in high-crime areas. And I say this as someone that's been profiled as a white person in a black country, and held at gunp…

And if stop-and-frisk is extended to vehicles? Would America tolerate cops randomly pulling over cars that looked "criminal"? Or we could take it a step further and just randomly search homes.

Sure, it could be a slippery slope, but the problem is that no one can strictly define what “criminal-looking” means. That term is often used synonymously with “urban style,” which means “black people, and others who dress like black people.”

If stop and frisk were started in the rural south and had this loose “criminal-looking” definition applied to it, all those MFers would get stopped every day for being skinny, having shitty teeth, etc.

The point being that criminals look exactly like normal, non-criminal people.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#82

Post by danaris »

chongli wrote: post #60
kelseyfrog wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note that common sense itself is a bias. It's a bias towards what we already think. Don't mistake that as trying to say that for "we should avoid priors" - that's not possible. What would it take for you to soften (not move) your priors on the common sense that "police aren't co-creators in crime through the act of observation"?

police aren't co-creators in crime Police aren’t co-creators of crime, they’re co-creators of crime statistics . Crimes that go unreported, with no arrest made, are invisible to crime statistics. When the police arrest someone and charge them with a crime, it counts as both an arrest and a reported crime. So even if crime were uniformly distributed across the city, if police spent the majority of their time in one ne…

Police are also demonstrably co-creators of crime.

We know very well that police injure and kill people—disproportionately people of color—at a much higher rate than the general population.

We also know that they (technically legally, but c'mon, it's theft) steal large amounts of money and other property from people through civil asset forfeiture.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#83

Post by banannaise »

sandworm101 wrote: post #61
zo1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The big question is whether we want to live in a society that requires the police to randomly stop and frisk people in order to stop crime. There is crime, I don't think anyone can dispute that. Honestly, I personally have no problem with criminal-looking individuals being stopped and frisked in high-crime areas. And I say this as someone that's been profiled as a white person in a black country, and held at gunp…

And if stop-and-frisk is extended to vehicles? Would America tolerate cops randomly pulling over cars that looked "criminal"? Or we could take it a step further and just randomly search homes.

> Would America tolerate cops randomly pulling over cars that looked "criminal"?

Sadly, it already does. The pretext stop is a core element of highway patrol, and policing in general.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#84

Post by verteu »

fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #15
tjpnz wrote: post #7

>Areas with more police vehicle images included wealthy commercial zones and low-income neighborhoods with higher proportions of Black and Latino residents. Does this really surprise anyone? Lower income areas have more crime. I don't understand why race is a factor here.

Perhaps they are saying that it's not universal to low income areas, and that low income areas that don't have a higher proportion of Black and Latino residents don't have the increased police vehicle presence? Hard to tell based on the wording there alone.

No -- from the paper: "we report racial and socioeconomic disparities without attempting to control for other covariates." [1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3593013.3594020

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#85

Post by ceejayoz »

kevincox wrote: post #46
judge2020 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circa 2010 GasBuddy[0] was a pretty novel app for smartphones that allowed crowd-sourcing gas prices around you. I imagine OPIS[1] (now owned by News Corp), who acquired GasBuddy, or one of the other Price Reporting Agencies, is providing Google with this gas price information. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GasBuddy 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_Price_Information_Service

I'd be surprised if it was crowd sourced. Even in fairly rural areas the prices of all stations are regularly updated. Crowd sourcing things like traffic data works as even a few people driving down a road can passively report data. It seems unlikely that manually entering gas data that changes daily would be sufficient to achieve such good coverage.

Waze asks me to report gas data manually when I stop at a gas station.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#86

Post by the_doctah »

policepost wrote: post #48
the_doctah wrote: post #33

This is the kind of "policing is racist" kind of propaganda that has San Francisco in it's current "hands off" state. Does anyone prefer that in every city everywhere?

It's research, are we not allowed to research Police and report on the results? That stance seems anti science to me...

>Large-scale policing data is vital for detecting inequity in police behavior and policing algorithms.

First sentence of the abstract. Activist research.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#87

Post by dmoy »

steele wrote: post #56
TeeMassive wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big question is it because of their race or is it coincidental with the higher crime rate?

Who is reporting detecting and reporting crime that dictates those rates? Why are some areas of towns so racially segregated?

> Why are some areas of towns so racially segregated?

In NYC's own words:

https://a816-dohbesp.nyc.gov/IndicatorPublic/beta/data-stori...

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#88

Post by verteu »

policepost wrote: post #67
verteu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were misled. From the paper: "we report racial and socioeconomic disparities without attempting to control for other covariates." [1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3593013.3594020

Misled implies a degree of intent, the wording is ambiguous but I don't assume ill intent by the author, especially when they later spend a paragraph explaining why they did not slice by covariates.

I'm referring to the author of the article (not the paper), who included no such explanation.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#89

Post by danaris »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #77
danaris wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what is the difference between them beyond the uniform and the name? The goals and incentives.

They got paid to enforce the law.

Which (even to the extent it was true—it wasn't, always) doesn't change the fact that their goals and incentives weren't the same as those of modern professional law enforcement.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#90

Post by raldi »

the_doctah wrote: post #74
raldi wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these cities could learn something from San Francisco: https://vanlifewanderer.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/san_f...

Can't imagine the cognitive dissonance it takes to link this statistic while pretending there's nothing wrong with crime in SF. Here's the full picture: https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/fixing-san-francis...

I didn't say there was nothing wrong with crime in SF. I just shared a link showing (just as your does) that its crime rate is significantly lower than a lot of cities.

For some reason a certain segment of the national media and populace is always talking about the San Francisco crime rate but seemingly never covers stories about crime in Phoenix, Charlotte, Denver, Dallas, or Indianapolis.

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