Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 124 posts

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#51

Post by senttoschool »

habosa wrote: post #31

To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors. But … I don’t think the cities are properly accounting for the ease of using multiple apps? If a driver is logged into Uber and Doordash and GrubHub on 3 phones waiting for a delivery they probably should not be accruing $17.96*3 per hour at that time. But it…

>To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors.

Funny I have the exact opposite opinion. I think it's good for all parties involved. Restaurants get a bigger market. Delivery people get more freedom at work. Eaters get convenience. Delivery apps get a piece of the revenue for efficiently routing drivers and customer service.

If it's truly bad for all parties, there'd be no Uber Eats, no one would order from Uber Eats, no restaurant would sign up, and no one would deliver.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#52

Post by senttoschool »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43
klyrs wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Now do the math on living in NYC with a car payment making $7/h. The alternative is restaurants hiring delivery drivers with reasonable ranges. There are a few of these in my area and I greatly prefer them. The food arrives on time and hot, every time.

> alternative is restaurants hiring delivery drivers with reasonable ranges The next step would be restaurants near each other banding together to share a pool of delivery workers. In practice, I think that is what these platforms will become. The city divided into zones, each zone with a set of drivers, and consumers strongly encouraged to order from in zone.

Aren't these delivery apps intelligent enough to already group restaurants and nearby drivers together?

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#53

Post by JumpCrisscross »

tchalla wrote: post #50
habosa wrote: post #31

To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors. But … I don’t think the cities are properly accounting for the ease of using multiple apps? If a driver is logged into Uber and Doordash and GrubHub on 3 phones waiting for a delivery they probably should not be accruing $17.96*3 per hour at that time. But it…

> If a driver is logged into Uber and Doordash and GrubHub on 3 phones waiting for a delivery they probably should not be accruing $17.96*3 per hour at that time. Why not? The entire shtick of Uber et al is that employees choose their hours and gain "freedom" from employees. This is what freedom looks like. Employers can't tell freelance contractors how they should behave. They decide a contract, they get a service a…

> Employers can't tell freelance contractors how they should behave. They decide a contract, they get a service and get their job done.

The contract can absolutely require exclusivity if paying by time.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#54

Post by JumpCrisscross »

senttoschool wrote: post #52
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> alternative is restaurants hiring delivery drivers with reasonable ranges The next step would be restaurants near each other banding together to share a pool of delivery workers. In practice, I think that is what these platforms will become. The city divided into zones, each zone with a set of drivers, and consumers strongly encouraged to order from in zone.

Aren't these delivery apps intelligent enough to already group restaurants and nearby drivers together?

> Aren't these delivery apps intelligent enough to already group restaurants and nearby drivers together?

Yes. But there are clearly other factors of higher weight. I am not usually shown the closest restaurants first, but instead close enough restaurants.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#55

Post by dtech »

tchalla wrote: post #50
habosa wrote: post #31

To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors. But … I don’t think the cities are properly accounting for the ease of using multiple apps? If a driver is logged into Uber and Doordash and GrubHub on 3 phones waiting for a delivery they probably should not be accruing $17.96*3 per hour at that time. But it…

> If a driver is logged into Uber and Doordash and GrubHub on 3 phones waiting for a delivery they probably should not be accruing $17.96*3 per hour at that time. Why not? The entire shtick of Uber et al is that employees choose their hours and gain "freedom" from employees. This is what freedom looks like. Employers can't tell freelance contractors how they should behave. They decide a contract, they get a service a…

The agreement is that if you earn a wage you have your time available for the employer, so they could no longer reject offers.

You're saying that they should get both the benefits of freelancers (pick work) and employees (minimum wage).

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#56

Post by CPLX »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #49
CPLX wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had ubiquitous fast and free local restaurant delivery in NYC for decades before these apps showed up. Before cell phones even. Every hallway had a pile of menus. It’s not really better now and killing these apps wouldn’t make it worse.

> not really better now Discoverability is better. There may be a niche for a non-profit app that identifies local restaurants with free delivery. A virtual hallway pile.

Yeah we have the internet now obviously. That’s orthogonal to having actual third party services delivering the food or taking a cut.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#57

Post by Eumenes »

Gigachad wrote: post #46
Eumenes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could cook a meal for a family of 5 for ~ $20, likely way less. Unless its pizza, sounds like it'd be closer to $100+. Using these delivery apps feels akin to buying a bottle of water at a concert or alcohol from a hotel mini bar. One of the biggest rip offs out there.

It’s not a rip off, it’s the fact that having another person do everything for you is fundamentally too expensive unless there is a massive pay imbalance.

Unless you're loaded, its most def a rip off. After the restaurant gets their share, the government fee/taxes, employee wages, doordash fees, delivery driver wages ... 5-10% of the bill is actually food cost.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#58

Post by Eisenstein »

senttoschool wrote: post #51
habosa wrote: post #31

To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors. But … I don’t think the cities are properly accounting for the ease of using multiple apps? If a driver is logged into Uber and Doordash and GrubHub on 3 phones waiting for a delivery they probably should not be accruing $17.96*3 per hour at that time. But it…

> To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors. Funny I have the exact opposite opinion. I think it's good for all parties involved. Restaurants get a bigger market. Delivery people get more freedom at work. Eaters get convenience. Delivery apps get a piece of the revenue for efficiently routing drivers a…

> If it's truly bad for all parties, there'd be no Uber Eats, no one would order from Uber Eats, no restaurant would sign up, and no one would deliver.

What a strange take.

If I take 3 billion dollars and setup a company that flies in people from other parts of the country at a loss to do your job for half the money you get for it, and have everyone compete for it, then when you lose your job and the business you worked for gets dependent on a business model requiring cheap disposable labor and I own the market I then I jack up prices to more than you were being paid but take the difference as profit, would you consider that a win for all parties?

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#59

Post by JumpCrisscross »

CPLX wrote: post #56
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not really better now Discoverability is better. There may be a niche for a non-profit app that identifies local restaurants with free delivery. A virtual hallway pile.

Yeah we have the internet now obviously. That’s orthogonal to having actual third party services delivering the food or taking a cut.

> we have the internet now obviously. That’s orthogonal to having actual third party services delivering the food or taking a cut

I don’t think local restaurant discovery, in the context of delivery, is a remotely solved problem outside the food-delivery apps.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#60

Post by tyingq »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53
tchalla wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a driver is logged into Uber and Doordash and GrubHub on 3 phones waiting for a delivery they probably should not be accruing $17.96*3 per hour at that time. Why not? The entire shtick of Uber et al is that employees choose their hours and gain "freedom" from employees. This is what freedom looks like. Employers can't tell freelance contractors how they should behave. They decide a contract, they get a service a…

> Employers can't tell freelance contractors how they should behave. They decide a contract, they get a service and get their job done. The contract can absolutely require exclusivity if paying by time.

Yes, but it does contribute to the somewhat fuzzy rules on whether someone is a contractor or employee.

See: https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc762

It's mostly not whether they can contractually demand any one particular thing. It's the sum total of behavioral and financial control they exert. Exclusivity would be a pretty big ticked box.

If Uber/Doordash tick enough of those questions, then they are at risk of having to treat their drivers as employees. Which is more expensive.

Post reply on HN