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Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

oig.justice.gov

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Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#81

Post by rnk »

redeux wrote: post #80
rnk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With us all carrying cell phones and most all EVs having a net connection, anonymity is hopeless. For phones I could get a burner and then when I login in, no privacy. So then a burner w net connection that somehow isn't on at my house, and I ssh to my home computer to read my email. For my EV w a net connection, I could pull the fuse for the lte modem. But I like the map w routing and plug and charge at a supercharg…

> ssh to my home Dead giveaway

Okay, but what about trusting everyone in the world and doing a random car and phone swap every morning, isn't that a great idea?

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#82

Post by [deleted] »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #62
zozbot234 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The carrier is not spying on you here. A cell phone network has to know your phone's location in order to function at all, and this info has only gotten more and more fine-grained with newer network standards. There's nothing wrong with granting access to such data with proper authorization. The "expense" involved in getting warrants approved is a better check on abuse, since it's very easy to do this as part of offi…

It would be simple to design a cellular data network that didn't tie account holders to devices. Issue access tokens good for e.g. 10 GB of data to the mobile device. Don't store the token in connection with the account. Anyone could buy a prepaid card with tokens for cash at any convenience store. The network identifies the device via the token, which is temporary and anonymous. Telephone routing is done via VoIP wh…

[deleted]

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#83

Post by yencabulator »

I_am_uncreative wrote: post #68
vacuity wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Constitution certainly isn't modern or flexible enough to definitively protect (users of) E2EE. There are arguments for their protection, but none is ironclad (like "this is speech that is protected" ironclad). I'm not saying the Bill of Rights was wrong in its time period, but it would be more appropriate to lay out fundamental principles that must be upheld, and protection for E2EE (users) could then be deri…

The first amendment protects speech. Code is speech. E2EE is code. Therefore, the first amendment protects E2EE.

Having the right to build a dragster car in your garage doesn't imply being allowed to drive on public roads with it.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#84

Post by pixl97 »

neodymiumphish wrote: post #40
theossuary wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just impossible. Even if everyone had perfect e2e encryption, the government could just ban it and throw people who use it in jail. You can't solve social problems with technology. What is necessary is a governmental system which tends away from the abuse of power. This requires better voting, more transparency, and the literacy and engagement of its citizens. The problem is, just like in Conway's game of life…

That's why you use a constitution strong enough to prevent the government from having authority to ban a tool like that. The solution's been known and described for 250+ years now.

A constitution is a piece of paper. At the end of the day, especially in a representative democracy is it's people. If the people drifting towards authoritarianism in mass, they will gladly wrap that piece of paper around a stick, light it on fire, and impale you with it all while claiming their new king.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#85

Post by yencabulator »

csdvrx wrote: post #33
jhelps wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cellphone companies have been selling the realtime location of all subscribers since at least 2018. It doesn't depend on whether you have location enabled either, since it figures out your location from the towers! On top of that, one of them had an unauthenticated API, meaning anyone in the world could track the realtime location of any US phone #[0]. If all of this bothers you, contact your state legislators. M…

> It doesn't depend on whether you have location enabled It's even better: the location can be enabled through a network initiated request. This is because A-GPS works "both ways". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS#SUPL : SUPL Position Calculation Function (SPCF) lets the client or the server ask for the client’s location. As part of the FCC’s updated 911 requirements, where cell phones (with no set loc…

> Personally, I believe 911 AGPS is of limited use: if I'm unconscious and can't dial, the phone 911 AGPS working won't do me any good. If I'm conscious and I can dial, I can also open a map app.

For what it's worth, new phones can detect car crashes and initiate a 911 call if you don't actively stop that.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#86

Post by nurple »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #62
zozbot234 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The carrier is not spying on you here. A cell phone network has to know your phone's location in order to function at all, and this info has only gotten more and more fine-grained with newer network standards. There's nothing wrong with granting access to such data with proper authorization. The "expense" involved in getting warrants approved is a better check on abuse, since it's very easy to do this as part of offi…

It would be simple to design a cellular data network that didn't tie account holders to devices. Issue access tokens good for e.g. 10 GB of data to the mobile device. Don't store the token in connection with the account. Anyone could buy a prepaid card with tokens for cash at any convenience store. The network identifies the device via the token, which is temporary and anonymous. Telephone routing is done via VoIP wh…

There was a phone called the AN0M that came on the market a couple years ago that purportedly had similar features, turns out it was an FBI honeypot op to sell it to people that were seeking "privacy" with the hope that criminals would purchase it.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7b4gg/anom-phone-arcaneos-f...

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#87

Post by nurple »

theossuary wrote: post #35
matheusmoreira wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also LOVEINT. Every once in a while, some NSA spy gets caught spying on their loved ones. Not even incompetence, just plain malice and abuse. Looks like they don't even face any criminal charges either. Governments are essentially adversaries, enemies we have to defend against. It must be mathematically impossible for them to abuse their power. Anything short of that is not enough.

That's just impossible. Even if everyone had perfect e2e encryption, the government could just ban it and throw people who use it in jail. You can't solve social problems with technology. What is necessary is a governmental system which tends away from the abuse of power. This requires better voting, more transparency, and the literacy and engagement of its citizens. The problem is, just like in Conway's game of life…

Interestingly they don't even need to ban the tech, just throw out enough FUD about people attempting to take back control of their personal data using the tech and you can set some nice precedent (in the mind of the judge and people) that those who use these tools _must_ have something evil to hide.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36197168

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#88

Post by mcpackieh »

csdvrx wrote: post #33
jhelps wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cellphone companies have been selling the realtime location of all subscribers since at least 2018. It doesn't depend on whether you have location enabled either, since it figures out your location from the towers! On top of that, one of them had an unauthenticated API, meaning anyone in the world could track the realtime location of any US phone #[0]. If all of this bothers you, contact your state legislators. M…

> It doesn't depend on whether you have location enabled It's even better: the location can be enabled through a network initiated request. This is because A-GPS works "both ways". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS#SUPL : SUPL Position Calculation Function (SPCF) lets the client or the server ask for the client’s location. As part of the FCC’s updated 911 requirements, where cell phones (with no set loc…

What if you're not unconscious, but badly concussed or otherwise dazed? You can't count on having a clear and level mind in the aftermath of an unspecified emergency.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#89

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

rnk wrote: post #77
matheusmoreira wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also LOVEINT. Every once in a while, some NSA spy gets caught spying on their loved ones. Not even incompetence, just plain malice and abuse. Looks like they don't even face any criminal charges either. Governments are essentially adversaries, enemies we have to defend against. It must be mathematically impossible for them to abuse their power. Anything short of that is not enough.

With us all carrying cell phones and most all EVs having a net connection, anonymity is hopeless. For phones I could get a burner and then when I login in, no privacy. So then a burner w net connection that somehow isn't on at my house, and I ssh to my home computer to read my email. For my EV w a net connection, I could pull the fuse for the lte modem. But I like the map w routing and plug and charge at a supercharg…

> and most all EVs having a net connection

This is a drivetrain-agnostic feature; ICE vehicles have OnStar and all that jazz too.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#90

Post by AnthonyMouse »

nurple wrote: post #86
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be simple to design a cellular data network that didn't tie account holders to devices. Issue access tokens good for e.g. 10 GB of data to the mobile device. Don't store the token in connection with the account. Anyone could buy a prepaid card with tokens for cash at any convenience store. The network identifies the device via the token, which is temporary and anonymous. Telephone routing is done via VoIP wh…

There was a phone called the AN0M that came on the market a couple years ago that purportedly had similar features, turns out it was an FBI honeypot op to sell it to people that were seeking "privacy" with the hope that criminals would purchase it. https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7b4gg/anom-phone-arcaneos-f...

This is why open source and strong cryptography are important. Anybody can sell you some snake oil when you can't verify how it works.
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