Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

oig.justice.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 99 posts

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#11

Post by matheusmoreira »

monero-xmr wrote: post #4

It sounds like this was a piece of software where you uploaded a PDF of “proof” that you had the authority to track anyone in America, and then it let you. And someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page. This is why I’m against giving the government the power to intercept communications or middle-man encryption. They always pitch it like “This power will be protected by courts and warrants…

See also LOVEINT. Every once in a while, some NSA spy gets caught spying on their loved ones. Not even incompetence, just plain malice and abuse. Looks like they don't even face any criminal charges either.

Governments are essentially adversaries, enemies we have to defend against. It must be mathematically impossible for them to abuse their power. Anything short of that is not enough.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#12

Post by matheusmoreira »

bjornsing wrote: post #7
monero-xmr wrote: post #4

It sounds like this was a piece of software where you uploaded a PDF of “proof” that you had the authority to track anyone in America, and then it let you. And someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page. This is why I’m against giving the government the power to intercept communications or middle-man encryption. They always pitch it like “This power will be protected by courts and warrants…

Yea I sometimes get a feeling that a large portion of the population just doesn’t understand conditionals. If you tell them “you have the authority to do X if Y”, they just ignore the Y part.

People who are drunk on power subscribe to the "ask for forgiveness, not permission" philosophy. They think everything they do is right and just. They cannot understand or even believe people would not trust them and see the conditional as a pointless hindrance, bureaucratic red tape meant to stifle upstanding people like them.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#13

Post by runlevel1 »

monero-xmr wrote: post #4

It sounds like this was a piece of software where you uploaded a PDF of “proof” that you had the authority to track anyone in America, and then it let you. And someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page. This is why I’m against giving the government the power to intercept communications or middle-man encryption. They always pitch it like “This power will be protected by courts and warrants…

Ironically, some of the documents he uploaded included award certificates and a list of justifications for a merit promotion.

Referenced in paragraph 13, but unfortunately not attached: https://www.justice.gov/d9/press-releases/attachments/2022/0...

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#14

Post by vjk800 »

bjornsing wrote: post #7
monero-xmr wrote: post #4

It sounds like this was a piece of software where you uploaded a PDF of “proof” that you had the authority to track anyone in America, and then it let you. And someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page. This is why I’m against giving the government the power to intercept communications or middle-man encryption. They always pitch it like “This power will be protected by courts and warrants…

Yea I sometimes get a feeling that a large portion of the population just doesn’t understand conditionals. If you tell them “you have the authority to do X if Y”, they just ignore the Y part.

It's not about understanding, it's about seeing these sort of rules bent dozens of times first and then finally doing it yourself. Rules are only as strong as their enforcement and in many cases it turns out that no-one has neither the incentive nor the ability to enforce them very hard.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#15

Post by ransackdev »

runlevel1 wrote: post #10

It's disturbing how much this information is sold and resold: * Securus purchased the location data from 3Cinteractive Corporation, which was located in Boca Raton, Florida. * 3Cinteractive Corporation, in turn, purchased such data from Technocom Corporation (doing business as LocationSmart), which was located in Carlsbad, California. * Technocom Corporation (doing business as LocationSmart) purchased this data direc…

I’ve been asking where the hell these companies are getting our data to begin with for awhile because it has to be through shady means, even if technically legal.

Tracking a user and selling that data should not be able to be slapped deep down in some TOS that grants intrusion into your life at that level. I wish laws would be changed to require explicit tracking requests for this type of data, that has to be conspicuous and separately authorized in addiction to any TOS.

I wonder if these are all shell companies to hide the “origin server” for this CDN of unauthorized surveillance data.

I’m also curious how many of these are just middle men that do nothing but markup and resell, vs how many of these companies do anything to enrich the data before flipping it.

Wouldn’t it be funny if someone were to use these systems to get the location information for the executives at all of these companies, and it ended up online everywhere? I wonder if they would change their opinions on technical loopholes allowing the tracking of people without consent

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#16

Post by vjk800 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #12
bjornsing wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I sometimes get a feeling that a large portion of the population just doesn’t understand conditionals. If you tell them “you have the authority to do X if Y”, they just ignore the Y part.

People who are drunk on power subscribe to the "ask for forgiveness, not permission" philosophy. They think everything they do is right and just. They cannot understand or even believe people would not trust them and see the conditional as a pointless hindrance, bureaucratic red tape meant to stifle upstanding people like them.

Also, the system doesn't really penalize this philosophy. Try to do everything by the book and you find that you can't really get anything done. Cut some corners, you get shit done and, in the worst case, you get a mild slap on the wrist several years later.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#17

Post by ianlevesque »

ransackdev wrote: post #15
runlevel1 wrote: post #10

It's disturbing how much this information is sold and resold: * Securus purchased the location data from 3Cinteractive Corporation, which was located in Boca Raton, Florida. * 3Cinteractive Corporation, in turn, purchased such data from Technocom Corporation (doing business as LocationSmart), which was located in Carlsbad, California. * Technocom Corporation (doing business as LocationSmart) purchased this data direc…

I’ve been asking where the hell these companies are getting our data to begin with for awhile because it has to be through shady means, even if technically legal. Tracking a user and selling that data should not be able to be slapped deep down in some TOS that grants intrusion into your life at that level. I wish laws would be changed to require explicit tracking requests for this type of data, that has to be conspic…

The answer is in the comment you replied to, "directly from telecommunications services providers".

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#18

Post by paddw »

monero-xmr wrote: post #4

It sounds like this was a piece of software where you uploaded a PDF of “proof” that you had the authority to track anyone in America, and then it let you. And someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page. This is why I’m against giving the government the power to intercept communications or middle-man encryption. They always pitch it like “This power will be protected by courts and warrants…

> and someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page.

I think I agree more than not with your worldview, but it seems like in this case this was the first time the person tried to improperly use the system... and he was caught and is now being sentenced. So I would say this is an example of the system "working".

I'm sure there are civil rights abuses that happen much more frequently, which we don't here about, but this specific incident seems like something that should be cheered.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#20

Post by asdfasdlfkj »

paddw wrote: post #18
monero-xmr wrote: post #4

It sounds like this was a piece of software where you uploaded a PDF of “proof” that you had the authority to track anyone in America, and then it let you. And someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page. This is why I’m against giving the government the power to intercept communications or middle-man encryption. They always pitch it like “This power will be protected by courts and warrants…

> and someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page. I think I agree more than not with your worldview, but it seems like in this case this was the first time the person tried to improperly use the system... and he was caught and is now being sentenced. So I would say this is an example of the system "working". I'm sure there are civil rights abuses that happen much more frequently, which we d…

According to the second sentence of the article, the officer tracked multiple people and their locations. He clearly wasn't caught the first time he used the tool inappropriately because he was found guilty of using it illegally multiple times.

The officer very clearly was not forthcoming with the investigation, judging from him falsifying documents after the investigation started. So he may have other undetected crimes.

In fact, the only fair conclusion I think you can draw is that some officer(s) use the tool inappropriately. Because it's not clear if all uses are audited, or this officer was found on a random check. But in my opinion saying "the system worked" is inappropriate given the lack of data.

Post reply on HN