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Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

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Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#71

Post by vacuity »

I_am_uncreative wrote: post #67
vacuity wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Government can never abuse power or government can systemically abuse power" is a false dichotomy. I didn't make it a dichotomy. I was just commenting that "mathematically impossible" is too strong to the point of absurdity. Not fun at parties, but I would hope it's fine on Hacker News. I then provided a rough overview of a system to mitigate abuse. We're not even disagreeing about trying to minimize government ab…

The standard for a warrant is probable cause, a far lower bar than beyond reasonable doubt.

Oops. Perhaps it should be different but I know next to nothing about the topic. I think my point still stands, though. Thanks for the info.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#72

Post by vacuity »

I_am_uncreative wrote: post #68
vacuity wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Constitution certainly isn't modern or flexible enough to definitively protect (users of) E2EE. There are arguments for their protection, but none is ironclad (like "this is speech that is protected" ironclad). I'm not saying the Bill of Rights was wrong in its time period, but it would be more appropriate to lay out fundamental principles that must be upheld, and protection for E2EE (users) could then be deri…

The first amendment protects speech. Code is speech. E2EE is code. Therefore, the first amendment protects E2EE.

I forgot about that argument. I think it's not ironclad because "code is speech" seems like a stretch to me. I guess I'm being a bit unfair; when I say I want ironclad principles, I mean the kind that you can interpret literally and deduce whatever correctly. Admittedly harder to do.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#73

Post by vacuity »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #69
vacuity wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Government can never abuse power or government can systemically abuse power" is a false dichotomy. I didn't make it a dichotomy. I was just commenting that "mathematically impossible" is too strong to the point of absurdity. Not fun at parties, but I would hope it's fine on Hacker News. I then provided a rough overview of a system to mitigate abuse. We're not even disagreeing about trying to minimize government ab…

Law enforcement burglarizing your house to install hidden cameras without a warrant is indeed something you would want the system to address, but it's also a much narrower problem, because it's expensive and dangerous. Typically when doing that sort of thing with a warrant, it would be done by a team who e.g. ensures that the homeowner doesn't come back while the cops are in there installing the bug, and who wouldn't…

Sure. We're not really disagreeing, just talking past each other. The more robust systems are to prevent abuse, the better.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#74

Post by sowbug »

tchalla wrote: post #53
theossuary wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just impossible. Even if everyone had perfect e2e encryption, the government could just ban it and throw people who use it in jail. You can't solve social problems with technology. What is necessary is a governmental system which tends away from the abuse of power. This requires better voting, more transparency, and the literacy and engagement of its citizens. The problem is, just like in Conway's game of life…

You can address social problems with transparency in access.

Something like browser certificate transparency, but for search warrants.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#75

Post by haswell »

kelipso wrote: post #66
jhelps wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cellphone companies have been selling the realtime location of all subscribers since at least 2018. It doesn't depend on whether you have location enabled either, since it figures out your location from the towers! On top of that, one of them had an unauthenticated API, meaning anyone in the world could track the realtime location of any US phone #[0]. If all of this bothers you, contact your state legislators. M…

> If all of this bothers you, contact your state legislators. Hoping this is a joke because in no world will that have any effect at all.

If this is true, one wonders how Maine managed to implement such a law.

Having an effect is not easy. This does not mean it is not possible, or that not trying is a good policy.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#76

Post by HWR_14 »

monero-xmr wrote: post #4

It sounds like this was a piece of software where you uploaded a PDF of “proof” that you had the authority to track anyone in America, and then it let you. And someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page. This is why I’m against giving the government the power to intercept communications or middle-man encryption. They always pitch it like “This power will be protected by courts and warrants…

I read it the exact opposite way. It turns out that when you punish people with a decade in prison for lying, you can just operate on their word and verify later.

I don't need a system that never gives data to a malicious user. It doesn't need to be Fort Knox. It needs to be logged and audited regularly and for people who abuse it to be punished severely.

I'm sure there are lots of technical measures keeping my bank account safe. But, the greatest measure is that if you take the money the US government will throw you in jail.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#77

Post by rnk »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #11
monero-xmr wrote: post #4

It sounds like this was a piece of software where you uploaded a PDF of “proof” that you had the authority to track anyone in America, and then it let you. And someone finally bothered to look at the proof and it was a blank page. This is why I’m against giving the government the power to intercept communications or middle-man encryption. They always pitch it like “This power will be protected by courts and warrants…

See also LOVEINT. Every once in a while, some NSA spy gets caught spying on their loved ones. Not even incompetence, just plain malice and abuse. Looks like they don't even face any criminal charges either. Governments are essentially adversaries, enemies we have to defend against. It must be mathematically impossible for them to abuse their power. Anything short of that is not enough.

With us all carrying cell phones and most all EVs having a net connection, anonymity is hopeless. For phones I could get a burner and then when I login in, no privacy. So then a burner w net connection that somehow isn't on at my house, and I ssh to my home computer to read my email. For my EV w a net connection, I could pull the fuse for the lte modem. But I like the map w routing and plug and charge at a supercharger.

I only have one idea, I use my friends phone and my friends car. We need a big swap meet every morning.

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#79

Post by chunk_waffle »

corn13read2 wrote: post #78

The fact that this is possible at all should be shocking. Unfortunately it’s old hat and needs to be made illegal, it easily breaks the 4th amendment.

I agree, why isn't a warrant required for such information in the first place?

Re: Deputy US Marshal pleads guilty to obtaining cell phone location unlawfully [pdf]

#80

Post by redeux »

rnk wrote: post #77
matheusmoreira wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also LOVEINT. Every once in a while, some NSA spy gets caught spying on their loved ones. Not even incompetence, just plain malice and abuse. Looks like they don't even face any criminal charges either. Governments are essentially adversaries, enemies we have to defend against. It must be mathematically impossible for them to abuse their power. Anything short of that is not enough.

With us all carrying cell phones and most all EVs having a net connection, anonymity is hopeless. For phones I could get a burner and then when I login in, no privacy. So then a burner w net connection that somehow isn't on at my house, and I ssh to my home computer to read my email. For my EV w a net connection, I could pull the fuse for the lte modem. But I like the map w routing and plug and charge at a supercharg…

> ssh to my home

Dead giveaway

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