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Defecting from North Korea is now harder

nytimes.com

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Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#151

Post by peppermint_gum »

fndex wrote: post #47
ornornor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also a country where the people are indoctrinated to believe their great leader is born under a double rainbow and descended straight from heaven, didn’t defecate ever, learnt to walk aged 3 weeks (yup) and to speak 5 weeks later at 8 weeks (yup), wrote 1500 books over 3 years, along with 6 operas (the bestest in the history of music, no less), and scored a 38 under par with 11 holes in one on the one and only N…

I'm sure you learned all that from other US/South Korean articles like this one, right? I watched a documentary about North Korean defectors that wanted to go back to North Korea, one of the many reasons was to be with their families. They never mentioned their family were imprisioned. And it wouldn't make much sense to want to go back if their family was imprisioned. Again, I'm no North Korean supporter or whatever,…

The reason why we learn about North Korea almost exclusively from the Western sources is because it's a totalitarian dictatorship that suppresses information. You can check out their media online and see for yourself that it's full of propaganda.

We don't get tourists from North Korea because they aren't allowed to leave the country. We don't talk with North Korean people on the internet, because their access to the internet is tightly controlled.

There's no grand western conspiracy to suppress information about NK. It's North Korea itself that does that.

I know that on HN many consider blind contrarianism to be synonymous with rationalism, but seriously...

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#153

Post by golergka »

palata wrote: post #111
golergka wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communist theory may not imply those things, but it always comes down to them in practice. I have a theory that if you jump of a tall building and wave your hands really hard, you can fly. This theory does not imply you falling to your death. And if you do, it just means you weren't really following my method.

> Communist theory may not imply those things Then just don't mix up the words, I guess? Otherwise you end up saying nonsense like this: > I have a theory that if you jump of a tall building and wave your hands really hard, you can fly. This theory does not imply you falling to your death. And if you do, it just means you weren't really following my method.

That's what happens when you still listen to the theory which has been disproven by a lot of very bloody experiments.

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#154

Post by [deleted] »

mardifoufs wrote: post #64
BoxFour wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The article briefly discusses the impact of COVID, highlighting China's implementation of supplementary measures and limitations during this period. It is evident that having knowledge of individuals' travel destinations would undoubtedly assist in contact tracing efforts. However, as the article states it can also be used for malicious exploitation. 2. If your question is about why they go to Thailand instead of…

>It is evident that having knowledge of individuals' travel destinations would undoubtedly assist in contact tracing efforts. Any evidence for that? Actually, any evidence that contact tracing has actually had any benefits wherever it has been tried? I'm sure it helps at very, very early stages of a pandemic, and even then depending on which virus we are trying to trace... But I'd like to see actual proof that it hel…

[deleted]

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#155

Post by Our_Benefactors »

BoxFour wrote: post #73
mardifoufs wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is evident that having knowledge of individuals' travel destinations would undoubtedly assist in contact tracing efforts. Any evidence for that? Actually, any evidence that contact tracing has actually had any benefits wherever it has been tried? I'm sure it helps at very, very early stages of a pandemic, and even then depending on which virus we are trying to trace... But I'd like to see actual proof that it hel…

Are you asking for evidence that knowing everyone’s locations and travel itineraries would assist in contact tracing? Because I think that one is obvious. Otherwise, I’m not particularly interested in having a COVID conversation.

> Are you asking for evidence that knowing everyone’s locations and travel itineraries would assist in contact tracing? Because I think that one is obvious.

Ok, I don’t think it’s obvious so let’s have that conversation. Do you have any examples you can share where contact tracing lead to less restrictions compared to another area that did not engage in contact tracing? My intuition is that no such example can be proven, which relegates contract tracing to nothing more than a faithkeeping exercise.

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#156

Post by dtx1 »

I wonder how many more decades of suffering it will take for the NK People to finally rid themselves of their government. Or perhaps it's at a point were the indoctrination is so complete and the control of the government so absolute that it is essentially stable forever.

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#157

Post by NSMutableSet »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #110

I really wish that bill Clinton could have brokered a deal with china (right before NK got nukes) which would have done a two-pronged invasion with the assurances that China would control all of NK as a direct puppet state. A Chinese direct puppet state would be far superior to the current situation.

This could have never happened because it would have meant sacrificing Seoul.

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#158

Post by knodi123 »

severino wrote: post #141
Der_Einzige wrote: post #110

I really wish that bill Clinton could have brokered a deal with china (right before NK got nukes) which would have done a two-pronged invasion with the assurances that China would control all of NK as a direct puppet state. A Chinese direct puppet state would be far superior to the current situation.

Well, that didn't work, but there's still time for a similar deal with China in regards to Taiwan.

To save them from....?

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#159

Post by NSMutableSet »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #102

North Korea exists because 5 years after the US liberated China from Japanese oppression, the communist Chinese declared war against the US lead UN forces in South Korea. Fairly wild, in retrospect.

The 38th parallel was originally drawn up based on Soviet troops invading Japan-controlled Korea from the North, and US troops invading from the South.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_Korea

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#160

Post by twelve40 »

fndex wrote: post #30

I'm not saying North Korea is a paradise or anything, but the country is technically still at war with the South Korea, which is heavily backed by the US. I wonder how much can be trusted from a NY Times(a US media company) article written by the "Seoul bureau chief for The New York Times".

but in this case what would they lie about? i don't think anyone would deny existence of defectors or how hard it is for them to move around.

It's more like a poor quality article though, they start off by claiming massive new difficulties for these people in the last couple of years but don't tell you anything about why that happened. Mass surveillance and greedy traffickers who ended up stealing the money and ratting everyone out existed years ago as well, so they didn't really add any new information here, or at least didn't explain it very well.

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