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Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

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91–100 of 133 posts

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#91
post #46

So does it mean it's not possible to have popular apps like whatsapp or Tinder on this? I also wish it was just a phone with much less performance for a smaller price. I want something durable and repairable, not something fast, Wirth's law is very important to consider when consider software and hardware. I hope they will make such phone, one day, because I am not spending that much money for a phone. I bought a 150…

I have been using a FP4 for about a year with /e/-os, and it has been pretty ok so far. I don't use many (if any) of the /e/-os cloud features, so can't speak for those. Other apps have been working fine w/ microG and the custom app store (which combines the play store and fdroid). The only issue I can think of off the top of my head is google translate not working. Other Gapps (Gmail, yt, lens, etc) seem to work fin…

Cost and affordability.

Also a less powerful CPU has a longer battery life.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#92
post #14

Is the hardware really the bottleneck to sustainable device? The software seems more much important but nobody is tackling it. Having a phone with a new battery doesn't matter if I can't run the same apps as others.

I think yes. It's not easy to design and manufacture a phone using sustainable materials and components from vetted sources who treat their employees fairly, unfortunately. And to do it in such a way as to be easily repairable. They've set themselves a high bar and I think they've done a great job

The software can be improved iteratively. Hopefully as they grow in new markets we'll see more investment in e-OS and (hopefully) find a viable competitor to Google that's open source

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#94
post #53
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also provide 5-year software support. https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/997918043739... > For Fairphone 4, we guarantee software support until the end of 2026, this includes an upgrade to Android 12 and, later on, Android 13.

Doesn't that mean that buying the newest Fairphone in 2023 gets you 0 years of Android updates and 3 years of security updates? Compared to 4 years of each with a midrange Galaxy A?

The FP4 was out in 2021. That's 5 years. But you're right, and it's actually discounted 50 eur because of that. You can wait for the FP5 if you're not satisfied

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#95
post #31
post #12

I really wish Fairphone 4 had GrapheneOS support, but after almost 4 years of Fairphone 3 I decided to go with a Pixel instead. Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor and unhappy customers with bricked FP4's that requires sending them back in. Also I would have hoped for them continuing the FP3 architecture, feels such a waste that they've now instead developed a much more expe…

> Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor I have a FP3, and it has been my first and only Android smartphone. I now wonder if what I've experienced is the "normal Android experience" or if I would have experienced something different from another brand. I'm also avoiding / disabling Google stuffs (I'm using f-droid, ...). I was occasionally surprised to see how a lot of people a…

The camera focus problem is not a an android problem it's just a fairphone problem. OEMs typically write their own camera apps.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#96
post #12

I really wish Fairphone 4 had GrapheneOS support, but after almost 4 years of Fairphone 3 I decided to go with a Pixel instead. Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor and unhappy customers with bricked FP4's that requires sending them back in. Also I would have hoped for them continuing the FP3 architecture, feels such a waste that they've now instead developed a much more expe…

CalyxOS supports it - https://calyxos.org/docs/guide/device-support/

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

heh - no. Camera stacks on modern phones process many raw frames to make a single photo - sometimes as many as 100. Collecting those frames is done in a second or so before and after the user clicks the shutter button. Thats a data rate of ~15 Gigabits - far faster than most phones can write to storage - and anyway would you be happy for each photo to take a few gigabytes of storage space until it was processed? Ther…

If you wanted to do this 'opensource', your best bet is to try and get the GPU to do the work. You'd need hardware/HAL support for streaming raw data at ~15Gbits to GPU accessible memory, and after that you can probably do most of the rest using software without hardware/kernel involvement. At a minimum, the GPU needs to be able to generate image scale pyramids, align them using optical flow, have a sensor noise mode…

The SoC in the fairphone has an ISP, they can just use that.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#98
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I give you 2 hours to write a brand new fully spec compliant ARMv8 interpreter, 3 hours to write an android VM to run on my windows laptop. 2 hours is pushing it for pretty much anything. I am pretty confident I can make a 64bit risc-v interpreter that'll boot Linux in a few days. Wouldn't be fast and wouldn't have IO, but neither of those have any baring on how easy the instructions are to interpret. The spec is f…

> 2 hours is pushing it for pretty much anything. bf could, lambda calculus as well, or potentially cellular automata. Also implementing IO is still important, as the apps depend on it. What I am saying in my case is that the hardware manufacturer should expose the basic hardware features as functions (so immutable, there is nothing to update here) and you would then be able to implement whatever your app is written…

> bf could, lambda calculus as well, or potentially cellular automata

Good luck turning those into silicon with any kind of performance.

> Why would strings be slower? These would be part of the static binary. These calls being hint and not necessarily standardized is an important part.

Because string comparisons are slow. Non-standardized hints are not a basis upon which software can be built. What you've described are APIs with loose coupling, which is the current status quo.

> As long as you can listen to touch input and optionally multi-touch you have physical support for all gestures. It being limited to version 6 or above is an arbitrary limitation, and indeed will cause the software to delimit what's supported. Whereas if your software only exposed a "has there been a switch gesture" visible to the users, they could decide that actually a button press should be considered as a switch, or they could use a separate library that convert touch inputs into a yes/no switch, or perhaps that their devices already come with some hardware accelerated switch gesture control that they can plug into it.

This is again the status quo. I can write a library that implements all the APIs needed to run discord on older versions of Android. It's simply a non-trivial amount of work for little benefit and thus hasn't happened.

> The problem is that when making software you are forced to reinvent the whole chain. I simply cannot make a calculator app with the guarantee that it will be able to run decades from now, I need to include the binary that open the window, get the OpenGL context, write the boilerplate so I can draw individual pixels, etc. > But what if my compiled program only contained basic flow logic and an input and output? Essentially a function. And when users run it, how that function behaves with the environment is device specific and as the calculator developer I couldn't care any less.

Your OS can't design a GUI for you, unless you're assuming the OS is also an artificial general intelligence. So really what you're asking for already exists: the CLI.

GUI apps are complex to make because their behavior is complex. Take your simple input and output, make the input include all window events and the output the file system/display/etc. and you end up doing all the same things.

> Obviously, if you make a VR game it will be pretty hard to emulate it on a gameboy, but there is nothing justifying that I cannot make my own discord port on an arduino (except speed, but this is a convenience)

You can totally port discord to an arduino! Get it to boot linux, run a web browser and open discordapp.com. You'll run out of RAM long before you get there, but just hook up an SSD for swap. Performance is just a convenience after all.

> I agree, that's because we do not assign proper meaning to these syscalls. Users wouldnt know what to do, I am not saying that we need to expose raw file descriptors or make the user handle async i/o. I however believe that we should make this option more viable, for example by allowing applications to transform whatever they want into an environment request so they become more straightforward. And the less syscall you do, the easier it will be for users to make their ports.

All this is essentially doing is turning libraries into syscalls. It's a loosely coupled external dependency and has all the same problems that entails regardless of what form its in.

I think the core issue you're trying to address is fragmentation. Unfortunately it's a natural result of people interacting with one another, not something you can fix with good design or software. It ends up leading to a lot of wasted work, but it's also a massive drive to innovate.

I'm going to sign off here. Thanks for discussing this, I honestly do find your idea interesting.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#99
post #47
post #12

I really wish Fairphone 4 had GrapheneOS support, but after almost 4 years of Fairphone 3 I decided to go with a Pixel instead. Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor and unhappy customers with bricked FP4's that requires sending them back in. Also I would have hoped for them continuing the FP3 architecture, feels such a waste that they've now instead developed a much more expe…

To add to that last point, after some time being frustrated with an FP4 and browsing the FP forums: it's not just availability of spare parts to repair shops. There doesn't appear to be a single mention in the forums of a repair shop willing to work on the FP4. There are numerous mentions of repair shops that are unwilling to, and of people being unable to find repair shops. Warranty repair is actually outsourced to…

Still, respect to the pioneers who try these devices out unreasonably before early adopters come along.

I hade a Note 1. It was so bad Samsung had to replace it with the Note 2 in 6 months.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#100
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wished there was a Graphene/Lineage OS phone (OEM supported; not “flash it yourself” sorcery needed kinda thing). And something within the size of original iPhone SE or Mini with just even an above average battery. I’d pay a premium for that phone. It’s my wishful thinking about smartphones.

The Fairphone is going to be sold in the US in partnership with the e.Foundation which develops /e/OS (another deGoogled android fork), and is what's going to come preinstalled on the Fairphone https://murena.com/america/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena...

I have been a happy user of an /e/OS Fairphone 3+ for two years. I just use it like my Samsung before, nothing special to do (other than choosing non Google apps, obviously).
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