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Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

arstechnica.com

81–90 of 133 posts

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#81
post #57
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor I have a FP3, and it has been my first and only Android smartphone. I now wonder if what I've experienced is the "normal Android experience" or if I would have experienced something different from another brand. I'm also avoiding / disabling Google stuffs (I'm using f-droid, ...). I was occasionally surprised to see how a lot of people a…

* Easily damaged by moisture (even though they've claimed certain IP ratings), due to the printed conductor inside the plastic layers with pin connectors * Battery swelling after less than two years of operation (no way to source this battery locally since they've built a custom connector / redesigned an standard OEM battery) * Overheating * Touch screen glitches (they've resolved that after a year via software, supp…

I see a lot of people mentioning Fairphones not being on par with phones by multi billion dollar companies.

This citicism is valid. But I think it leaves out a lot of the overall picture.

I have a Fairphone 3, and so far it survived being dropped into the bathtub (being submerged for a sec), being dropped on hard floors several times and being stepped on (screen got cracked, but it still works).

Like with the Fairphone 2 I had before that, I'm able to do repairs (part replacements) on my own with minimal effort. It gets support for years.

I have it running /e/ OS (terrible name) without Google Services and while that's not Graphene OS, I vastly prefer it to Google Android.

For me having minor frustrations with Wi-Fi is well worth having a less-unfree and more-ethical phone.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#82
post #12

I really wish Fairphone 4 had GrapheneOS support, but after almost 4 years of Fairphone 3 I decided to go with a Pixel instead. Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor and unhappy customers with bricked FP4's that requires sending them back in. Also I would have hoped for them continuing the FP3 architecture, feels such a waste that they've now instead developed a much more expe…

I wished there was a Graphene/Lineage OS phone (OEM supported; not “flash it yourself” sorcery needed kinda thing). And something within the size of original iPhone SE or Mini with just even an above average battery. I’d pay a premium for that phone. It’s my wishful thinking about smartphones.

The Fairphone is going to be sold in the US in partnership with the e.Foundation which develops /e/OS (another deGoogled android fork), and is what's going to come preinstalled on the Fairphone https://murena.com/america/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena...

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#83
post #60
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simply not possible to make bug-free software that's supposed to interact with the internet. And even if it did, it would take so long to develop that it would never get released before it was already too old to be useful.

This is because you are still assuming software being developed the same way. Could you give me an example of potential risk that is absolutely impossible to solve no matter how we change the entire computing process (from users running the app, to the app developer, and to the os developers) I am not suggesting anything that would increase development time, in fact it is the opposite. Having to explicitly support mu…

Cryptographic functions for example. Today they might be cutting edge, but tomorrow someone might have found a critical exploit or the hardware has just become too powerful.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#84
post #71
post #12

I really wish Fairphone 4 had GrapheneOS support, but after almost 4 years of Fairphone 3 I decided to go with a Pixel instead. Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor and unhappy customers with bricked FP4's that requires sending them back in. Also I would have hoped for them continuing the FP3 architecture, feels such a waste that they've now instead developed a much more expe…

A thousand tims this. When I moved away from stock Android and on to cuwtom ROMs a few years ago, I didnt find anything that met my needs but then I stumbled on GrapheneOS. I understand why it doesn't run on non Pixels but their approach to handling Google Services and preinstalled software in particulqr should really be copied by other ROM maintainers and developers (something I'll give a shot in a few short months)…

> their approach to handling Google Services and preinstalled software in particulqr should really be copied

How does it work on Graphene?

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#85
post #13

Fairphone 4 has been my main and only phone for several months now. Great experience, very good battary life. Performance-wise, I haven't noticed any significant difference compared to traditional phones. The only drawbacks might be the camera and thickness, but honestly I don't care much. Of course, much depends on your use case and expectations. YMMV.

Is it possible to swap batteries on the go? That'd be killer.

I only replaced my phone this year (S7 edge) because the battery was depleting too fast.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#86
post #12

I really wish Fairphone 4 had GrapheneOS support, but after almost 4 years of Fairphone 3 I decided to go with a Pixel instead. Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor and unhappy customers with bricked FP4's that requires sending them back in. Also I would have hoped for them continuing the FP3 architecture, feels such a waste that they've now instead developed a much more expe…

I wished there was a Graphene/Lineage OS phone (OEM supported; not “flash it yourself” sorcery needed kinda thing). And something within the size of original iPhone SE or Mini with just even an above average battery. I’d pay a premium for that phone. It’s my wishful thinking about smartphones.

Android has always had bigger phones than Apple. At this point it’s in the DNA of the platform to offer phones above 5.5 inches.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#87
post #69
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There doesn't appear to be a single mention in the forums of a repair shop willing to work on the FP4. That's a good point as well, companies like Framework are doing a better job on that front (afair) with releasing detailed repair PDFs for shops that need the circuitry to debug electrical issues/replace parts. Haven't seen something from Fairphone yet. > Apparently, for the FP4 (reportedly in a departure from som…

>That's a good point as well, companies like Framework are doing a better job on that front (afair) with releasing detailed repair PDFs for shops that need the circuitry to debug electrical issues/replace parts. Haven't seen something from Fairphone yet. A frustrating thing is that Fairphone actually has released quite detailed information for the FP4 [1], I think to a significantly greater extent than Framework. It…

Oh that PDF is awesome

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#88
post #84
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thousand tims this. When I moved away from stock Android and on to cuwtom ROMs a few years ago, I didnt find anything that met my needs but then I stumbled on GrapheneOS. I understand why it doesn't run on non Pixels but their approach to handling Google Services and preinstalled software in particulqr should really be copied by other ROM maintainers and developers (something I'll give a shot in a few short months)…

> their approach to handling Google Services and preinstalled software in particulqr should really be copied How does it work on Graphene?

You can find out a high level explanation here: https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#89
post #13

Fairphone 4 has been my main and only phone for several months now. Great experience, very good battary life. Performance-wise, I haven't noticed any significant difference compared to traditional phones. The only drawbacks might be the camera and thickness, but honestly I don't care much. Of course, much depends on your use case and expectations. YMMV.

Is it possible to swap batteries on the go? That'd be killer. I only replaced my phone this year (S7 edge) because the battery was depleting too fast.

Yes, the battery is removable just like an old Nokia phone.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#90
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast complexity of modern software and hardware comes from the ever more complex environment they interact with. 100% agree, hence my suggestion to completely remove environment access from the instruction set. No syscall. > It runs on ARM - an easily interpretable instruction set. I give you 2 hours to write a brand new fully spec compliant ARMv8 interpreter, 3 hours to write an android VM to run on my windows…

> I give you 2 hours to write a brand new fully spec compliant ARMv8 interpreter, 3 hours to write an android VM to run on my windows laptop. 2 hours is pushing it for pretty much anything. I am pretty confident I can make a 64bit risc-v interpreter that'll boot Linux in a few days. Wouldn't be fast and wouldn't have IO, but neither of those have any baring on how easy the instructions are to interpret. The spec is f…

> 2 hours is pushing it for pretty much anything.

bf could, lambda calculus as well, or potentially cellular automata. Also implementing IO is still important, as the apps depend on it. What I am saying in my case is that the hardware manufacturer should expose the basic hardware features as functions (so immutable, there is nothing to update here) and you would then be able to implement whatever your app is written in and reuse the primitive hardware functions.

> Ok so in order to make it fast we're not going to use strings,

Why would strings be slower? These would be part of the static binary. These calls being hint and not necessarily standardized is an important part. Standards are the same as environments, they always evolve.

> Applications want to know whether the system has support for a syscall, so we return an error if they don't exist. This is how Linux syscalls work.

You may want to do something with the call even if the guaranteed syscall isn't there. I am meaning the string as a hint, not as an api

> but whoops switch gestures were added in version 6 but this customer is using version 5. The absense of this syscall is fundamentally incompatible with my game, so I guess I'll put "requires version 6" on the website.

Switch gestures cannot be linked to a software version. It is hardware. As long as you can listen to touch input and optionally multi-touch you have physical support for all gestures. It being limited to version 6 or above is an arbitrary limitation, and indeed will cause the software to delimit what's supported. Whereas if your software only exposed a "has there been a switch gesture" visible to the users, they could decide that actually a button press should be considered as a switch, or they could use a separate library that convert touch inputs into a yes/no switch, or perhaps that their devices already come with some hardware accelerated switch gesture control that they can plug into it.

> As long as new things are being invented/written you can never have full backwards compatibility.

The problem is that when making software you are forced to reinvent the whole chain. I simply cannot make a calculator app with the guarantee that it will be able to run decades from now, I need to include the binary that open the window, get the OpenGL context, write the boilerplate so I can draw individual pixels, etc.

But what if my compiled program only contained basic flow logic and an input and output? Essentially a function. And when users run it, how that function behaves with the environment is device specific and as the calculator developer I couldn't care any less.

Obviously, if you make a VR game it will be pretty hard to emulate it on a gameboy, but there is nothing justifying that I cannot make my own discord port on an arduino (except speed, but this is a convenience)

> Just to be thorough this is fully possible right now - intercepting unknown syscalls and showing a prompt - but there's simply way too many and their behavior too complex for it to be of any use. Especially non-experts would have exactly zero chance.

I agree, that's because we do not assign proper meaning to these syscalls. Users wouldnt know what to do, I am not saying that we need to expose raw file descriptors or make the user handle async i/o. I however believe that we should make this option more viable, for example by allowing applications to transform whatever they want into an environment request so they become more straightforward. And the less syscall you do, the easier it will be for users to make their ports.

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