Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

California needs real math education, not gimmicks

noahpinion.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 386 posts

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#81

Post by daseiner1 »

bsder wrote: post #57
goolulusaurs wrote: post #25

In my younger years, particularly during my schooling, I held a deep resentment towards the educational system. It felt overtly clear to me, as a student, that schools failed to effectively foster learning and growth. However, my perspective has evolved over time. I've come to understand that the issues I observed are not unique to the school system but rather characteristic of large institutions as a whole. The perv…

> It felt overtly clear to me, as a student, that schools failed to effectively foster learning and growth. Schools reflect the values that parents impress upon them. The vast majority of parents want free daycare and a "Magic Paper(tm)" that gets their child into a college higher than what their child is actually qualified for. Nothing else. So, you can complain about education not supporting "learning and growth".…

and those parents reflect a rotten culture.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#82

Post by WalterBright »

another_story wrote: post #77
goolulusaurs wrote: post #25

In my younger years, particularly during my schooling, I held a deep resentment towards the educational system. It felt overtly clear to me, as a student, that schools failed to effectively foster learning and growth. However, my perspective has evolved over time. I've come to understand that the issues I observed are not unique to the school system but rather characteristic of large institutions as a whole. The perv…

There's also an increased distance between those doing the actual work and those making decisions about how it should be done. Bureaucratic depth keeps any real change from taking place, instead leaving those on the ground level to try and work within a set growing rules. Any attempt to affect change has to be filtered through so many levels and takes so long. As a longtime teacher, I don't think there are any soluti…

The one solution that will work (and is vehemently resisted) is to pay teachers a base salary plus a bonus for each student that meets grade level expectations at the end of the year.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#83

Post by WalterBright »

blindriver wrote: post #59
pessimizer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We seem to expect it to fix poverty. We should fix poverty, and use public education to fix dumb kids.

You fix poverty by educating children and letting them grow up in a safe area free from crime. Educated children get put on the right path in life and lift themselves out of poverty. That's how Asian countries like Japan and Korea pulled themselves out of poverty in the matter of decades. During the 1950s and 1960s, South Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world, and by the 1980s, was considered an economi…

The Soviets had a good public education system. No economic miracle.

Japan's and Korea's economic miracles came from embracing free markets. The same thing happened in Vietnam and China. Free markets => prosperity, every time.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#84

Post by c_crank »

WalterBright wrote: post #83
blindriver wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fix poverty by educating children and letting them grow up in a safe area free from crime. Educated children get put on the right path in life and lift themselves out of poverty. That's how Asian countries like Japan and Korea pulled themselves out of poverty in the matter of decades. During the 1950s and 1960s, South Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world, and by the 1980s, was considered an economi…

The Soviets had a good public education system. No economic miracle. Japan's and Korea's economic miracles came from embracing free markets. The same thing happened in Vietnam and China. Free markets => prosperity, every time.

But to have a functioning free market, you need a basic functioning legal system, so people exchanging goods and services don't get robbed.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#85

Post by meroes »

I can confidently say only 6 out of 16 years of math education (elementary through undergrad math degree) were "good". Contrarily for example, most science classes were good in my experience.

Math is down there with the worst average teachers. I learned more from YouTube than the textbook+teacher for some classes (Hello Professor Leonard anyone?). Without some YouTube professors I probably would have failed several classes.

My gripes: Most teachers suck, no one teaches you how to actually study math along the way, the word problems/applications need to stop being almost always about physics ffs, too many classes have inadequate or poor technology, the big picture concepts/threads are lost by most math teachers, and some textbooks are AWFUL, the eTextbook push has made some even worse (too many examples of why to list), and finally there needs to be sometime in those 16 years where foundations and philosophical issues are broached at least passingly.

The good math classes are amazing, and that's what kept me interested. But I just had to vent about the wasted potential. I'm not giving a nuanced opinion, I'm pointing out some glaring issues. Also if you get a teacher who says they regularly attend some national conference for math educators to structure their class, transfer out.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#87

Post by ordersofmag »

WalterBright wrote: post #82
another_story wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also an increased distance between those doing the actual work and those making decisions about how it should be done. Bureaucratic depth keeps any real change from taking place, instead leaving those on the ground level to try and work within a set growing rules. Any attempt to affect change has to be filtered through so many levels and takes so long. As a longtime teacher, I don't think there are any soluti…

The one solution that will work (and is vehemently resisted) is to pay teachers a base salary plus a bonus for each student that meets grade level expectations at the end of the year.

Can you offer any evidence or reasoning as to why I should believe this? It would seem to assert that somehow student success/failure currently sits entirely in the hands of teachers: they know what is needed and could do it if only they were marginally more motivated. I'm not a teacher myself but have been involved in the system my entire life and this doesn't ring true at all. Even if it were possible it would almost certainly result in teachers focusing all of their efforts on the best students and none of it on those who are struggling. Which seems to run counter to the goals of public education.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#88

Post by zmgsabst »

ip26 wrote: post #61
jncfhnb wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on definitions mostly. You’ll likely start doing things like simple linear equations, including algebraic notation before formally doing “algebra 1”

Resounding agreement. I know kindergartners who can solve “z = x + y, solve for x” forms of problems, but some people call that “algebra”.

Almost all of them can:

“7 = [ ] + 3” where you write 4 in the box is a standard problem when learning to add, in nearly every workbook.

We unteach that skill between early elementary school and middle school through poor pedagogy.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#89

Post by Slava_Propanei »

meroes wrote: post #85

I can confidently say only 6 out of 16 years of math education (elementary through undergrad math degree) were "good". Contrarily for example, most science classes were good in my experience. Math is down there with the worst average teachers. I learned more from YouTube than the textbook+teacher for some classes (Hello Professor Leonard anyone?). Without some YouTube professors I probably would have failed several c…

[dead]

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#90

Post by WalterBright »

c_crank wrote: post #84
WalterBright wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviets had a good public education system. No economic miracle. Japan's and Korea's economic miracles came from embracing free markets. The same thing happened in Vietnam and China. Free markets => prosperity, every time.

But to have a functioning free market, you need a basic functioning legal system, so people exchanging goods and services don't get robbed.

That's correct.
Post reply on HN