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The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

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Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#91

Post by csdvrx »

tracker1 wrote: post #88
csdvrx wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My position is everything but ideological: I will consider a Mac as soon as 1) the hardware offers an OLED touchscreen and internal LTE (everything else is secondary, with DDR5 I've even relaxed my requirements for actual ECC) 2) Linux can run as well as it does on my Thinkpad or Surface. Until then, I refuse to use a Mac, because I don't like the OS or the limited hardware choice.

I'm not big on touch myself. As for lte, usually just tether to my phone if needed, then I don't have to worry about after lte, etc.

To be fair, I enjoy the internal LTE/5G way more than the screen: with it, I don't have to carry a phone!

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#93

Post by imtringued »

jimaek wrote: post #7

I can't wait for proper high end ARM laptops with Microsoft's backing and support. I'm like the author, I consider the M MacBooks very impressive but I dislike the OS itself. And it was very unexpected that Chrome underperform so much, without it it's a complete deal breaker for me.

As if those will come any time soon. The big ARM scare of 2017 is already over. ARM is not competitive. By the time they catch up in the server and laptop markets, RISC-V will have eaten their lunch. All they have left to do is run marketing campaigns against RISC-V and watch their inevitable decline.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#94

Post by imtringued »

hospitalJail wrote: post #65

Its 2023 and I still don't understand the point of CPU speeds, even as a dev doing both single and multithreading. AI is continuing to put priority on GPUs. In the worst case, I wait an extra fraction of a second with a bad CPU. With a bad GPU, you are basically excluded from the latest technology. I'm sure ARM really wants to advertise that CPU is relevant, but it continues to be nearly irrelevant when you buy somet…

Try encoding video in real time or NP hard optimization problems (e.g. generating bitstreams for FPGAs) instead of running something as trivial as a database and a Webserver.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#95

Post by hospitalJail »

oneplane wrote: post #75
hospitalJail wrote: post #65

Its 2023 and I still don't understand the point of CPU speeds, even as a dev doing both single and multithreading. AI is continuing to put priority on GPUs. In the worst case, I wait an extra fraction of a second with a bad CPU. With a bad GPU, you are basically excluded from the latest technology. I'm sure ARM really wants to advertise that CPU is relevant, but it continues to be nearly irrelevant when you buy somet…

I suppose it depends on what performance bracket you are targeting. Scripting and interpreted languages, JIT next and VM after that (i.e. JVM, CLR), native code after that and optimised low-level code after that would all have very different reactions to 'good CPU' vs. 'bad CPU'. A 'slow' process (±10s) taking 1 second longer won't seem that much slower, but a fast process (±100ms) taking ten times as long does defin…

I need to do everything locally. Air gapped computer with confidential stuff.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#96

Post by ChainOfFools »

faster_harder wrote: post #46
pmontra wrote: post #41

What's all the fuss about glass vs plastic touchpad in the article? I never had a glass touchpad on my laptops but I had glass touchpads on all my smartphones (the screen.) I see why the screen of the phone can't be plastic (colors, scratches, more?) but I never felt that the plastic touchpads of my laptops did not do their job as nicely as the screens of my phones.

It reminds me of the glass vs plastic phone backside arguments. Glass is more fragile than plastic and will not absorb shocks. It is also heavier and harder to replace (most plastic backsides can be removed with a guitar pick). But glass is considered premium .

I was astonished at the amount of ink, or pixels wasted by this ridiculous and completely manufactured distinction on the part of inept tech "journalists" and bloggers who had to find something non-technical to identify a pecking order among phones in order to attract readership who didn't understand the more subtle distinctions between features that affect actual usage of the phone.

The only other ridiculous argument that had an even worse effect on the net usability of phones, as well as the indistinguishable limited variety that we have today, is the ridiculous obsession with thinness. And then everyone puts a case on it anyway.

Thin, thin, thin, and a glass back on top of that. I'm not usually sympathetic to conspiracies but it sure seems like the interests of phone manufacturers ( especially one in particular) who want to sell a new throaway device every year were suspiciously well served by both of these absurd abitrary obsessions of the tech press.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#97

Post by wyldfire »

sspiff wrote: post #53
rhamzeh wrote: post #5

I'd be much more interested in the Linux situation on this laptop. Most of the UI applications I use casually or CLI apps are available on ARM (I have them running fine on a Pinephone, so the experience on a laptop will only be better). But not sure how the dev workflow would be: Podman, IntelliJ, Sublime Text, etc.. And some casual stuff like Calibre, Thunderbird, Joplin. Oh and how much would the battery life impro…

When I last checked, the mainline kernel support for the 8cx was EXTREMELY limited. Having messed around with lots of ARM based devices on Linux in the past, I would not bother with this one. Especially given that rather unimpressive battery life. I'd love a modern ARM based Linux laptop, but I also know that unless it's got mainline kernel support or a dedicated Linux friendly vendor (like Pine) behind it, it's life…

> When I last checked, the mainline kernel support for the 8cx was EXTREMELY limited.

Is that the case? I would've thought the devices present in 8cx are similar to the other Snapdragon 8 series which would probably be well supported upstream? Or do they linger in a GKI tree before landing upstream?

Maybe the exclusivity between QCOM/MS is mutual and they'll be able to partner with vendors like Canonical in the future.

Personally - I would love an XPS13 ARM linux laptop, hopefully Dell decides to jump on the bandwagon. I have owned i5/i7 XPS13s for several years now and am looking forward to ARM if they can make one that performs well.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#98

Post by soulbadguy »

tracker1 wrote: post #73
soulbadguy wrote: post #54

"high-end" arm windows machines never made much sense to me. It seems that the main appeal is longer battery life, but looking at the recent CPU from AMD, and the rumors of the next CPU from intel.It's seem clear to me that x86 is making more progress in reducing power consumption than arm is making in performance. And i wouldn't be surprise that in a couple of year we get very efficient x86 cpu's from both AMD and i…

AMD is getting here, certainly... the latest 7430HS mini PCs still use 6-8W at idle though, which is quite a bit more than ARM still. I've been using an m1 air as a personall laptop and when traveling rarely even think about having to plug it in... for my limited use with the screen around 60% brightness, I can use it all day and then some. Mostly text/email or remote editing (wireguard, ssh, vs code).

I agree, Mx laptop are still miles ahead in term of performance per what. But i would venture to suggest that a lot of it is more about the platform (OS, BIOS,chipset etc... etc...) then the CPU per-say.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#99

Post by soulbadguy »

dantaro wrote: post #78
soulbadguy wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May i ask why ? I don't use Macs because my day to day requires X86 and linux. But pounds for pounds if someone doesn't mind MacOs. The new Mx series of macs is just a better value than most high-end laptop theses days

Hey there, author here, for me personally it's about the windowing and file explorer. I spent 6 months trying to get used to it at a job, and even bought a M1 Macbook Pro last year to try, but I just couldn't find any combination of plugins and programs that made it feel right. I know, it's not a great reason, and I have no hate for anyone who yums my yuck, but at the end of the day it's what stops me from using MacO…

> I know, it's not a great reason

I think it's perfectly valid reason. At the end of the day a laptop is a tool, and your experience using the tool trumps any intrisic quality of said tool.

I can relate, the main reason i do not use Mac's as personal device ( i have had some issue to me in my professional life) is MacOS. It always existed in a sort of middle ground that doesn't suits my needs : Doesn't have the broad compatibility with windows (in my case gaming, CPU/GPU and tools like intel vtune) and it's a unix, but close to enough to linux where most of professional work revolves around (lack of virtualization, not elf format support, native toolings are different etc... etc...)

The hardware is amazing, the price is great, but the software is just not for me.

And it's sucks, because the landscape of high-end windows laptop is just plain embarrassing. I am currently driving a surface pro 9 : Garbage battery life, runs hot on anything but web browsing and worst of the all the screen (120 Hz minds you) have HORRIBLE ghosting.

The only saving grace of windows laptops right now is that if one is patient there are some sweet sweet discount deals to be had.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#100

Post by soulbadguy »

hospitalJail wrote: post #64
soulbadguy wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May i ask why ? I don't use Macs because my day to day requires X86 and linux. But pounds for pounds if someone doesn't mind MacOs. The new Mx series of macs is just a better value than most high-end laptop theses days

>The new Mx series of macs is just a better value than most high-end laptop theses days ? I just recently bought a laptop and when I was comparing benchmarks, I didn't see Apple anywhere near the top of the list for CPU single or multithreaded. Not that I remotely care about CPU speeds, my number 1 focus was VRAM. Made it an easy decision since you basically pick something with Nvidia and high VRAM.

> I didn't see Apple anywhere near the top of the list for CPU single or multithreaded

Probably wasn't normalized as perf per watt.

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