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The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

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Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#51
post #32

If the author works with Kotlin, and for that price tag…. Get a mac!

Some of us (me included) just refuse to use a Mac. If I couldn't find a good Thinkpad, I would get a Surface.

I used to as well. But the M series just blows away every laptop - every Pc - I’ve ever had in the last 30 years… at some point it is an ideological proposition.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#52

Will these things boot to Linux?

Can you use WSL2?

There's two groups wanting Linux: One wants access to Linux tooling and will almost certainly have a good experience with WSL/2. The other group wants to not run Windows, so WSL in any form is mostly useless.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#53
post #5

I'd be much more interested in the Linux situation on this laptop. Most of the UI applications I use casually or CLI apps are available on ARM (I have them running fine on a Pinephone, so the experience on a laptop will only be better). But not sure how the dev workflow would be: Podman, IntelliJ, Sublime Text, etc.. And some casual stuff like Calibre, Thunderbird, Joplin. Oh and how much would the battery life impro…

When I last checked, the mainline kernel support for the 8cx was EXTREMELY limited. Having messed around with lots of ARM based devices on Linux in the past, I would not bother with this one. Especially given that rather unimpressive battery life.

I'd love a modern ARM based Linux laptop, but I also know that unless it's got mainline kernel support or a dedicated Linux friendly vendor (like Pine) behind it, it's lifetime and updates are going to be extremely limited. And that doesn't even consider graphics API support, which will have an impact on rather basic things, such as YouTube video playback.

Honestly, the only viable ARM laptop with good battery life and modern day performance is an Apple MacBook Air or Pro, which has a very impressive community project behind it. But even that is still incomplete and might peter out if some key figures burn out or become uninterested or preoccupied with for-pay work or whatever.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#54
"high-end" arm windows machines never made much sense to me. It seems that the main appeal is longer battery life, but looking at the recent CPU from AMD, and the rumors of the next CPU from intel.It's seem clear to me that x86 is making more progress in reducing power consumption than arm is making in performance. And i wouldn't be surprise that in a couple of year we get very efficient x86 cpu's from both AMD and intel.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#55
post #41

What's all the fuss about glass vs plastic touchpad in the article? I never had a glass touchpad on my laptops but I had glass touchpads on all my smartphones (the screen.) I see why the screen of the phone can't be plastic (colors, scratches, more?) but I never felt that the plastic touchpads of my laptops did not do their job as nicely as the screens of my phones.

It just feels nicer to use. Not more functional to use, but it does feel different to your fingertip.

Like the author mentions, it's not a dealbreaker, but is a calling-card of this particular machine's build/materials/specs not living up to its pricetag.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#56
Full disclosure - I do work at Microsoft on Windows. One of the work devices I have is a Surface Pro X - and it has been generally a good experience. I don’t really write code on the device (I work on Hyper-V), but for browsing, Office, Remote Desktop, WPA etc it’s good.

My biggest annoyance is that Motu don’t have ARM64 drivers for their audio interfaces, so I can’t use the one I have for microphone input. I’ve tried asking - but it doesn’t seem like it’s even on their roadmap, which is unfortunate. I’m pretty sure they license the Thesycon driver which does now support ARM64 [0] - but I guess they need to either update or just build the ARM64 version… The inbox class driver doesn’t work because Motu use implicit feedback.

[0] - https://www.thesycon.de/eng/usb_audiodriver.shtml

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#57
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us (me included) just refuse to use a Mac. If I couldn't find a good Thinkpad, I would get a Surface.

May i ask why ? I don't use Macs because my day to day requires X86 and linux. But pounds for pounds if someone doesn't mind MacOs. The new Mx series of macs is just a better value than most high-end laptop theses days

I hate Apple, its products, and its ecosystem. The developer tools suck and macOS provides no advantage over windows other than an annoying user interface (if you're into that sort of thing)

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#58
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same where wondering if it performs the same/better under Linux. I imagine the battery life could be better under Linux based on my experience with Windows 11 on my own laptop, I mean, the fans don't even spin up that often under Linux unlike the near constant fan chorus Windows gives me. Also, a computer without a single fan so I can comfortably use it on my bed? With possibility to replace it's SSD? It sounded a lo…

> imagine the battery life could be better under Linux based on my experience with Windows 11 on my own laptop God, I have experienced the exact opposite with Linux on laptops. Battery management is so bad I am considering moving to a Macbook.

What does your `top` say? What does your browser's performance tool (e.g. `about:performance`) say?

I went from a constantly-overheated Linux laptop to a completely calm Linux laptop, on the same hardware, distro, and DE. Checking for unnecessary processes that eat CPU, spurious ACPI events, overly-heavyweight browser tabs goes a long way. Making sure the browser uses hardware support to play YouTube is another heavyweight.

It takes some time, but much less time than I had expected.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#59
post #5

I'd be much more interested in the Linux situation on this laptop. Most of the UI applications I use casually or CLI apps are available on ARM (I have them running fine on a Pinephone, so the experience on a laptop will only be better). But not sure how the dev workflow would be: Podman, IntelliJ, Sublime Text, etc.. And some casual stuff like Calibre, Thunderbird, Joplin. Oh and how much would the battery life impro…

I think some of the aarch64 laptop have landed in the Linux kernel source tree.

I am currently using a C630 laptop wich could be considered a predecessor to the discussed model ( with an anemic 4GB of RAM), and following up some botched Windows update (Windows recovery put the system in a worst place). I decided to take the plunge and install Linux.

Hardware support is rough, and depends a lot on firmware file you would need to salvage from the windows partition.

So far without these files, among the most necessary stuff I would like to have.

- Wifi, I a coping with a wifi dongle, wich mean I am out of one of the 2 usb-c ports

- Sound ( usual linux problem, worked around the issue, with another dongle, or Bluetooth audio)

- External display support (worked on windows)

Otherwise, linux experience is leagues ahead of Windows, in terms of boot time and responsiveness. Battery life is great for my use ( mainly write python and C code ). And far as battery life improvement, your mileage can vary, I haven't timed mine yet but can try and will report in a week about it (maybe you ca give me aome pointer to simulate the usual load your would put it through).

- podman work great

- sublime text run as smooth as it is on x86-64

- bios is an UEFI and I dont think it required a signed bootloader, although updating the setting to boot grub was not as straightforward.

- I am mainly using Wayland, with most of the caveats associated to it (Firefox does flicker a lot, so I am mainly using chromium)

On the most annoying side, I don't know if there is a way to configure the lid action, as it put the laptop on standby.

I would recommend, if only for the gain in thinness and if you are traveling a lot with your laptop.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#60
post #47

I'm going to assume that, not being an Intel processor, it won't have Intel Management Engine. So where does this device land privacy-wise? Can this device safely be recommended for highly privacy-focused people who might otherwise choose "respects your freedom certified" [1] legacy hardware? Or does it have something similar to IME with similarly negative privacy implications? [1] https://ryf.fsf.org/

Given that this is a Lenovo laptop, one who is truly concerned about privacy may want to avoid it regardless [0]. Not to mention none of it is open source, from the firmware to the hardware, so I hardly see this as a suitable replacement for people looking to run FSF-approved computers.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Security_and_privacy_...

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