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Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

washingtonpost.com

191–200 of 660 posts

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#191
> Inside, a 47-year-old man struggled to mix ashy heroin with fragments of crystal crack, crushing both into a souped-up speedball. Observed by a nurse, he took the needle and jabbed it into a vein in his neck. “The veins on his hands have all dried up,” the nurse said matter-of-factly.

I don't really understand how anybody sensible can read a sentence like that and think to themselves, "yes, this is fine."

If individual bodily autonomy is the god you have chosen to worship above all other paths painstakingly eked out over the ages through much trial and error toward human flourishing, I guess it makes sense, but for those of us who ascribe to more, dare I say, traditional ideas about what constitutes good human life, the thinking that underlies the kinds of policies which lead to the outcomes detailed in this article seem utterly abhorrent.

It's astonishing how much human misery and suffering some people are willing to put up with and justify when wearing ideological blinders.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#192
post #191

> Inside, a 47-year-old man struggled to mix ashy heroin with fragments of crystal crack, crushing both into a souped-up speedball. Observed by a nurse, he took the needle and jabbed it into a vein in his neck. “The veins on his hands have all dried up,” the nurse said matter-of-factly. I don't really understand how anybody sensible can read a sentence like that and think to themselves, "yes, this is fine." If indivi…

Does banning drugs prevent these kind of scenarios?

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#193
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. They slashed funding to successful parts of the strategy and now claim the strategy failed. A convenient narrative for politicians, but hardly truth.

Portuguese politicians are doing the same with the public healthcare system there (deliberately underfunding it to be able to claim that it "failed"). They want to follow the "good" example of the US, like most other EU member states are now doing.

While public healthcare is still quite ok in Portugal, anyone that actually wants to be treated in time, and not be stuck in waiting lists actually goes to a private doctor, or clinic.

Hence why having private insurance as part of the job benefits is widely appreciated, unless one is a public employee with nice health packages like ADSE.

I am approaching 50 now, and seldom ever had a family doctor for example.

However in Germany it is much worse, where public healthcare is almost managed as the private one, and where many doctor offices differ their treatments depending on which kind of insurance one has, public vs private. You get different waiting rooms, different treatment proposals, different appointment flexibility,...

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#194
This reminds me of Vancouver Canada. What happens is decent people and families move out of the downtown core, leaving the worst offenders to run amok. It’s sad. I wonder how many of the 200 experts advocating for the continuation of this policy have children.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#195
post #191

> Inside, a 47-year-old man struggled to mix ashy heroin with fragments of crystal crack, crushing both into a souped-up speedball. Observed by a nurse, he took the needle and jabbed it into a vein in his neck. “The veins on his hands have all dried up,” the nurse said matter-of-factly. I don't really understand how anybody sensible can read a sentence like that and think to themselves, "yes, this is fine." If indivi…

The problem is that if drugs are not decriminalized, that guy's probably in jail or was extrajudicially executed by the police.

It's not like we'd be doing him a service by charging him with a felony.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#196
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is pretty much fine with drugs, as well as California

It's not fine, it's horrifying.

Recently moved from Vancouver to London. I’ve had enough with the drugs issues there.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#197
“When you first back off enforcement, there are not many people walking over the line that you’ve removed. And the public think it’s working really well. Then word gets out that there’s an open market, limits to penalties, and you start drawing in more drug users. Then you’ve got a more stable drug culture, and, frankly, it doesn’t look as good anymore.”

There's the Singapore solution. "Singapore executes man for trafficking two pounds of cannabis", April 23, 2023.[1]

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/25/asia/singapore-cannabis-execu...

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if respondents were unbiased and truthful. That sounds like a useless metric to me. You need a metric of the harm to society. Drug motivated violent crime for example.

Quote from the article: > Overdose rates have hit 12-year highs and almost doubled in Lisbon from 2019 to 2023. Sewage samples in Lisbon show cocaine and ketamine detection is now among the highest in Europe, with elevated weekend rates suggesting party-heavy usage. In Porto, the collection of drug-related debris from city streets surged 24 percent between 2021 and 2022, with this year on track to far outpace the las…

Also from the article

> After years of economic crisis, Portugal decentralized its drug oversight operation in 2012. A funding drop from 76 million euros ($82.7 million) to 16 million euros ($17.4 million) forced Portugal’s main institution to outsource work previously done by the state to nonprofit groups, including the street teams that engage with people who use drugs.

You'll notice that 2012 comes before 2019.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#199

n=1: during my visit to lisbon in 2021, i was accosted twice by burly guys near my hotel[1] who aggressively asked if i wanted to buy weed or cocaine. the first time, the guy was so angry at my refusal ("no thanks, man") that he followed me up a public staircase to continue his pitch. he backed off when i returned his verbal aggression. so maybe the portuguese policy could use some tweaking. [1] https://goo.gl/maps/y…

I think you'll find drugs are sold everywhere. When in Cambridge, England, I often get people say "Hey bud" to me when walking towards and past me, which is a deniable euphemism for touting weed, if I was an undercover cop.

Drugs are everywhere and who sells them is quite surprising. The war on drugs will never be won whilst life is not brilliant and life is getting worse for many, and they wont hesitate to "drop" you ie kill you if they know you have reported them to the police, at least, thats what they say in roundabout ways.

If royalty and other rich people who own country estates, think they have a right to rule, these drug dealers people will claim they have a right to do what they do. They just challenge the hypocrisy in the system.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#200
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, what did this person do that was so serious they should be jailed?

Using in public.

The other day a woman passed gas on a crowded public light rail car and it personally offended me. What's more, an approximately six-year-old boy heard her and repeated the infraction, in other words it's indisputable her action influenced others to follow in her footsteps. I also happen to know that neither she nor the six-year-old are gainfully employed, thus they are a drain on society. And in breaking wind it's conceivable or perhaps certain they spread pathogens to countless other innocent people.

Should she have been arrested and jailed for committing what I and many others would regard as depraved behavior? And if not, why the street addict and not the railcar ripper?

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