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Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

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Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#61
n=1: during my visit to lisbon in 2021, i was accosted twice by burly guys near my hotel[1] who aggressively asked if i wanted to buy weed or cocaine. the first time, the guy was so angry at my refusal ("no thanks, man") that he followed me up a public staircase to continue his pitch. he backed off when i returned his verbal aggression.

so maybe the portuguese policy could use some tweaking.

[1] https://goo.gl/maps/y3N88pENiH8rVXTM6

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#62
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be acting as though addiction and the issues which give rise to it are somehow not part of society, and therefore should be discarded. Even ignoring why that's wrong, ignoring why letting people slip through the cracks still has an impact on your conception of society... ...how about basic human empathy?

> ...how about basic human empathy? How about empathy from your side? I have lost a friend due to addiction despite "care". The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all and fixing other issues that cause this.

[flagged]

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#63
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be acting as though addiction and the issues which give rise to it are somehow not part of society, and therefore should be discarded. Even ignoring why that's wrong, ignoring why letting people slip through the cracks still has an impact on your conception of society... ...how about basic human empathy?

> ...how about basic human empathy? How about empathy from your side? I have lost a friend due to addiction despite "care". The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all and fixing other issues that cause this.

> How about empathy from your side? I have lost a friend due to addiction despite "care". The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all.

Maybe that's true, but the genie isn't going back into the bottle as like 50 years of the 'war on drugs' has so clearly demonstrated.

The war on drugs started 18 June 1971 with Richard Nixon's declaration that drug abuse is “public enemy number one.” At this point, drugs seem more available than ever. I strongly suspect we would minimize harm in the reality in which we live (rather than the pretend reality where drugs don't exist) by acknowledging that.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#64

Has any advanced civilization been gung-ho about legalized drugs? There are probably strong socioevolutionary reasons why this is the case.

Any civilization that would use violence against non-violent offenders cannot be defined as advanced.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#65
An interesting part of the article: "state-funded nongovernmental organizations that have largely taken over responding to the people with addiction seem less concerned with treatment than affirming that lifetime drug use should be seen as a human right."

It's almost like if NGOs that live off the existence of drug abuse didn't want to kill the cash cow. That's another case of why such public services shouldn't be externalized.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#66
post #57
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say it's a "learn by example". If anything, it makes me doesn't want to try heroine It's like if we presented corpses of dead drivers on the main streets – I bet it'd greatly lower overspeeding and drunk driving

This is probably not true.for example: People know smoking kills. The tabacco industry even popularized stories about sad COPD patients that were dying in the hospital and still wouldnt quit smoking. "Its that good!" "It's so nice! Even when you know it kills you, you still dont want to stop! Not to mention! Quiting is hard! Real hard! Dont try to quit. You will only suffer." That is the narrative that they push. The…

Smoking tobacco was subject to well over a century of well-funded marketing, anti-science efforts to hide adverse effects, and even claims of being good for your health. I don't think there's a Joe Camel for heroin, and if there is, some poor homeless bastard shooting up isn't it.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#68

Drugs should be sold at the grocery store, no question asked. They should be cheap too. That would solve the drug problem.

Have you seen how much San Francisco and Seattle have improved with drug tolerant policies?

This is the new "but that was not TRUE communism". The more tolerant places are overrun with drug users and homeless camps yet their supporters online will say "but if we provided more money for housing and decriminalized all drugs, now that would solve the issue".

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#69

Talk about burying the lede, 11 years ago they privatized their drug oversight operation and cut funding by over 80%. Gee, I wonder if that could have an impact? > After years of economic crisis, Portugal decentralized its drug oversight operation in 2012. A funding drop from 76 million euros ($82.7 million) to 16 million euros ($17.4 million) forced Portugal’s main institution to outsource work previously done by th…

Delegating to nonprofits is not the same as privatizing. Your argument creates a false dichotomy in which the only two possible actors are the state or private enterprises, but that’s not the case, even for the simple reasons that nonprofits are not the same as for-profit entities.

Common Pool Resources are a prime example of a paradigm that escapes this dichotomy.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#70

n=1: during my visit to lisbon in 2021, i was accosted twice by burly guys near my hotel[1] who aggressively asked if i wanted to buy weed or cocaine. the first time, the guy was so angry at my refusal ("no thanks, man") that he followed me up a public staircase to continue his pitch. he backed off when i returned his verbal aggression. so maybe the portuguese policy could use some tweaking. [1] https://goo.gl/maps/y…

That's the heart of touristy downtown. Lot of guys selling fairly aggressively there towards tourists. Been offered quite a lot, I didn't have the aggression experience you seemed to experience though. That is unfortunate.
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