Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 660 posts

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#181

Post by coryrc »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #170
themitigating wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-menta... This nice timelime adds to what this person said. There's more that helped shape the publics perception of mental health. The movie "One flew over the cukcoos nest" seemed to create a negative perception about these facilities. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pr0.1983.53.1.1... This study in 1983, though small, showed that 4 out of 5 people…

Unironically good. Ken Kesey is a saint. For as bad as the current situation is, being stuck in mental institutions of that quality (which most were) is far worse.

How's it working out for these folks?

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/couple-attacked-man-killed-...

https://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/suspect-charged-sou...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10492101/Moment-hom...

I guess, fine for them, bad for us.

They'll end up confined anyway, just a lot of collateral damage on the way.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#182

Post by jdmoreira »

thucydides wrote: post #61

n=1: during my visit to lisbon in 2021, i was accosted twice by burly guys near my hotel[1] who aggressively asked if i wanted to buy weed or cocaine. the first time, the guy was so angry at my refusal ("no thanks, man") that he followed me up a public staircase to continue his pitch. he backed off when i returned his verbal aggression. so maybe the portuguese policy could use some tweaking. [1] https://goo.gl/maps/y…

These guys are not even selling you drugs. They are selling you some fake thing. They just swindle tourists. They are hustlers not even real drug dealers.

I'm Portuguese and lived in Lisbon for 12 years. Trust me, you can't buy drugs from those guys

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#183

Post by deanCommie »

> A newly released national survey suggests the percent of adults who have used illicit drugs increased to 12.8 percent in 2022, up from 7.8 in 2001, though still below European averages.

> still below European averages.

Does the data actually support the arguments made in this article?

I hate to say it but.....it sounds like it's still better than the alternative?

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#184

Post by arcticbull »

pedrosorio wrote: post #168
arcticbull wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the whole world did it, and the whole world failed, for fifty years. Just as it failed with alcohol, a much more dangerous drug than most. [0] I'm not sure how Singapore fares, but Japan is also known for its hard-line drug policy. This just pushes the harm underground. Just because you don't see it, and society turns a blind eye to it, doesn't mean it's not there. tl;dr: the hardline policy towards drug use in…

> alcohol, a much more dangerous drug than most The overall impact of alcohol on society is not because it is “much more dangerous than most”, but because it is consumed (and abused) by orders of magnitude more people than almost every other drug.

That's partly the case, but part of the higher ranking of other drugs is due to lack of safe access. There's no perfect model, but I would argue alcohol is a drug like any other - with risk of dependence, with health consequences, and with mortality risk. So my question to the parent is: why would we separate alcohol? Would parent be in favor of returning to prohibition?

I think it's fair to say that alcohol does far more harm to the user than psychedelics.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#185

Post by izacus »

virgildotcodes wrote: post #7

Talk about burying the lede, 11 years ago they privatized their drug oversight operation and cut funding by over 80%. Gee, I wonder if that could have an impact? > After years of economic crisis, Portugal decentralized its drug oversight operation in 2012. A funding drop from 76 million euros ($82.7 million) to 16 million euros ($17.4 million) forced Portugal’s main institution to outsource work previously done by th…

Well, the american propaganda for ineffective War on Drugs needs to continue.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#186

Post by toyg »

riffraff wrote: post #147
virgildotcodes wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm? A nonprofit is still a privately controlled entity. Many nonprofits and for-profits are given government grants and subsidies, this does not exclude them from being classified as private entities. So this still qualifies as privatization, no? If your contention is more rooted in the amount of direction that the government gives the private entity it is "delegating" to, then maybe that's something to explore? Tha…

I think what he's pointing out is that the traditional meaning of "privatization" is linked to going to a for-profit organization rather than a non-profit-government one. In this sense, the fact that this was delegated to non-profit organizations, which have the same objectives as the state (provide help, rather than profit) makes some difference. So the issue here seem more the funding cuts rather than who manages t…

Smaller, disjointed entities have, by definition, higher overheads: if before you had 1 payroll accountant for 100 state employees, then you split duties over 5 nonprofits, now you have 5 payroll accountants.

The counter-argument is that the 5 orgs can be somewhat more efficient than the one monolith, but the key is the conditional: they can, but there is no guarantee, whereas the 4 extra overheads are guaranteed. That's one of the many systemic flaws of privatized/delegated systems.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#187

Post by blitzar »

wesselbindt wrote: post #119
the-printer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like saying rape victims are too close to rape and therefore their opinions on rape legislation are skewed. No...no.

Exactly, I completely agree, it's a very silly thought! What makes drug use different from my example that people aren't able to have an informed opinion on it when they're involved?

It's like saying rapists are too close to rape and therefore their opinions on rape legislation are skewed.

Drug users are not the victims

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#188

Post by creato »

sacnoradhq wrote: post #127
standardUser wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decriminalization is a cowardly half-solution that only creates more problems, leaves violent gangs in charge and does nothing to improve the purity of drugs. A measured and thoughtful legalization program for the most popular drugs is the only solution if we want to curtail black market dominance and save human lives.

You're incredibly misinformed on this issue. The prohibition War on Drugs is what keeps drug prices up, organized criminality and violence, and the over-incarceration of mostly poor people. Take away the difficulty of access and the ridiculous criminal penalties for nonviolent infractions, and street prices drop.

In all cases I’m aware of, “decriminalization” refers to legalizing possession of small end user amounts. It doesn’t legalize production or sales, so the issues you described remain.

If low drug prices is what you want, we should legalize the production and sales of drugs, but keep usage illegal.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#189

Post by stkdump »

slowmotiony wrote: post #154
ohashi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the heart of touristy downtown. Lot of guys selling fairly aggressively there towards tourists. Been offered quite a lot, I didn't have the aggression experience you seemed to experience though. That is unfortunate.

Weird. We have tourist spots in eastern europe and I've never once been offered drugs in my entire life.

I experienced something similar at a famous parisian landmark with a person trying to sell souveniers. When I declined he got strangely aggressive and I felt like quickly getting away even though the place was packed with tourists. In Istanbul there was a man selling flowers getting a bit agressive when I declined. So like said elsewhere in this thread, this phenomenon is not drug specific.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#190

Post by nprateem »

RoyalHenOil wrote: post #134
za3faran wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone smoking something doesn't bother me, unless maybe if I can smell it, then it bothers me very, very slightly. Read up about the dangers of second and third degree smoking. > The same way someone drinking a beer in public doesn't bother me. How could it? Perhaps those who've had family or friends killed by drunk driving or drunken homicide might have something else to say.

>Perhaps those who've had family or friends killed by drunk driving or drunken homicide might have something else to say. A guy I used to date was rear-ended while waiting at a red light by someone who was texting while driving. It was an extremely serious wreck (the person who hit him did not brake at all, ge was so absorbed in his phone), and my ex was lucky to survive it. But people texting on their phones in publ…

Texting while driving isn't illegal in your country?
Post reply on HN