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Top suspect in 2015 Ashley Madison hack committed suicide in 2014

krebsonsecurity.com

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Re: Top suspect in 2015 Ashley Madison hack committed suicide in 2014

#31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having watched them murder Star Wars, Willow, and now Indiana Jones, this seems relatively tame.

I wonder how releasing new films (good or bad) is supposed to "murder" an existing franchise.

Each new entry in a franchise is contagious against old entries in two ways

1. It typically carves out new canon about its universe, and

2. Closes old loose ends

Canon when added haphazardly can:

A. retroactively create in-universe plot-holes (if X existed in the universe, then Y happening in the originals made no sense, they would have known about it),

B. remove magic and mystery from an existing universe (famously in Star Wars’ case, quite literally, because now “The Force” is a bunch of little biological creatures) or

C. otherwise trivialize what were previously key moments (someone who was portrayed as a big bad previously was later just shown to be some powerless, boring low-level lackey who was irrelevant)

Additionally, loose end patching is infectious to older entries of a story:

A. When an older work presents a mystery, when you have a solution in a later work and that solution is lame, it taints the original by the knowledge that the loose end is, forever after, a broken promise by the writers.

B. It typically crowds out the potential of better solutions later (typically in film, franchises have to reboot to backtrack on canon),

C. prevents the solution from being the potentially better “that’s just where the story ends, use your imagination for what happens next!”, and

D. makes it retroactively hard as a fan to justify recommending the series to new fans, because if they feel passionate too, you know there’s no light at the end of the tunnel for incoming fans, since you know how it ends and know that it’s not rewarding.

Re: Top suspect in 2015 Ashley Madison hack committed suicide in 2014

#33
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having watched them murder Star Wars, Willow, and now Indiana Jones, this seems relatively tame.

I wonder how releasing new films (good or bad) is supposed to "murder" an existing franchise.

The Indiana Jones franchise exists because of the Indiana Jones character. People that go to one of those movies want to see him.

If you setup a Mary Sue that treats him like an useless geriatric waste of a man, and finish the movie by having this Mary Sue knock him out, you're basically pissing in your own franchise. And since Harrison Ford won't be able to do another one, this is how the franchise ended, with a sour note.

Re: Top suspect in 2015 Ashley Madison hack committed suicide in 2014

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indiana Jones, as a franchise, mostly exists to present-day audiences as a series of Harrison Ford movies. Which, to sidecar a bit, seems like a shame when the point and click titles made by the Monkey Island folks were absolutely fantastic. I'd say Fate of Atlantis is a way better 4th installment than Crystal Skull. But at any rate, following up a movie generally viewed as mediocre with what's shaping up to be one o…

20 years is a bad comparison point for "did Disney kill Indiana Jones." Disney bought Lucas just over 11 years ago. So what was the shape of the franchise at that point? After a well-received film in 1989 and a well-received but niche Fate of Atlantis video game in 1992, and a TV series for a year or so (so not a smashing success, though I remember people liking it) in 1992-1993) it went dark movies/TV-wise, and none…

Your point that the franchise wasn't in a great spot at acquisition is noted, and I'd agree with it. I'm not the same commenter who originally voiced the broad anti-Disney polemic, I'm mostly just chiming in my general disappointment at this one franchise's lifespan in hindsight.

But, I'd say it's only gotten worse over Disney's ownership. It's not much of an achievement for any film to be better than Crystal Skull, and results seem to be indicating neither movie is a successful new installment for the franchise.

I was going to give Disney credit for Lego Indiana Jones as another positive moment for the franchise, but that game actually predates the acquisition!

On the note of squeezing blood from the stone that is Harrison Ford as the protagonist, James Bond has switched its eponymous leading act many times and remains a pretty strong franchise (and has endured quite a few clunker releases) - for some reason the various writers of Indiana Jones over the years decided to do the opposite with these films.

Neither the lego game nor Atlantis feature any voicing from Harrison Ford, but they still capture the "feeling" of the original trilogy of movies better than either of Disney's sequels, IMO. I think the decision for Indiana Jones 4 to be led by Ford again could be a good example of a franchise -steering decision by Disney that's really only been to its detriment.

Re: Top suspect in 2015 Ashley Madison hack committed suicide in 2014

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 years is a bad comparison point for "did Disney kill Indiana Jones." Disney bought Lucas just over 11 years ago. So what was the shape of the franchise at that point? After a well-received film in 1989 and a well-received but niche Fate of Atlantis video game in 1992, and a TV series for a year or so (so not a smashing success, though I remember people liking it) in 1992-1993) it went dark movies/TV-wise, and none…

Your point that the franchise wasn't in a great spot at acquisition is noted, and I'd agree with it. I'm not the same commenter who originally voiced the broad anti-Disney polemic, I'm mostly just chiming in my general disappointment at this one franchise's lifespan in hindsight. But, I'd say it's only gotten worse over Disney's ownership. It's not much of an achievement for any film to be better than Crystal Skull,…

It wouldn't suprise me if Lucasfilm pre-Disney may have intended to use 4 to hand things off to Shia LeBeouf, but, well, whoops.

The Bond model is an interesting one, I wonder how well it would work for Indiana Jones. First I guess you gotta decide if you are gonna bring it forward in time or not. If you do, I think there's something of a bad guy problem. Raiders and Last Crusade both benefited a lot from the Nazis being on the other side of things. Keeping that scale + keeping the focus on archeological finds vs whatever Bond McGuffin can be imagined seems a hard job to me... And if you leave it set in the WWII era... there's only so much you can plow that land too.

And once you're 30 years after major media relevance, recasting your hero is a highly risky move. Does Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford have more pull? Or even less? (Compare to, say, Uncharted, which opened to less money than Dial of Destiny, but was cheaper to make at least).

(Of course, "highly risky move" also has to include spending $300M to make a new entry after that long... so... whoops again)

Re: Top suspect in 2015 Ashley Madison hack committed suicide in 2014

#36
post #9

So they hired a scumbag to harass their critics in potentially illegal ways, fired the scumbag, and then were surprised that he turned on them? What a perfect example of what goes around, comes around.

Not to mention the “business” being run was about as shady as you can get.

It's remarkable that they still exist as a functioning company. I would have thought that the lawsuits over the hack, the alleged fake accounts, and the general loss of customer trust would have been enough to push them into insolvency.

Re: Top suspect in 2015 Ashley Madison hack committed suicide in 2014

#38
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how releasing new films (good or bad) is supposed to "murder" an existing franchise.

The Indiana Jones franchise exists because of the Indiana Jones character. People that go to one of those movies want to see him. If you setup a Mary Sue that treats him like an useless geriatric waste of a man, and finish the movie by having this Mary Sue knock him out, you're basically pissing in your own franchise. And since Harrison Ford won't be able to do another one, this is how the franchise ended, with a sou…

Well, Harrison Ford is literally 80 years old. I think Indiana Jones is about 80 in the latest movie as well. Complaining that a *gasp* woman could beat up an octogenarian is more of a commentary about you than the inevitable march of time.

Re: Top suspect in 2015 Ashley Madison hack committed suicide in 2014

#39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how releasing new films (good or bad) is supposed to "murder" an existing franchise.

The Indiana Jones franchise exists because of the Indiana Jones character. People that go to one of those movies want to see him. If you setup a Mary Sue that treats him like an useless geriatric waste of a man, and finish the movie by having this Mary Sue knock him out, you're basically pissing in your own franchise. And since Harrison Ford won't be able to do another one, this is how the franchise ended, with a sou…

And yet the audience reaction to that has been largely positive - both in aggregate and in the theater I was in - it's the critics that have been more sour compared to how they reacted to Crystal Skull (while the audience disliked that one much more).

If you wanna say "don't make a movie about an old version of that character," fine. But give it a fucking break with the idea that the filmmakers are attacking you by showing that an 80 year old version of the character wouldn't be the same as a 40 year old version.

Let's remember that the last successful film in the franchise made EXCELLENT use of aging and the effect of that on the character's relationships with a great premise and execution by Ford and Connery, too. We were already getting to peek beyond just "here's Indy again doing Indy things"

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