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Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

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Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#431

Post by tourmalinetaco »

ilinx wrote: post #138
JohnFen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does UX well. I hear people say this often enough to question my own sanity, because I don't find Apple's UX to be very good at all. I find it confusing and it makes things difficult to figure out.

Could you provide an example of the sort of thing you’re talking about? Because I’m the type of person the other commenter was talking about (I’ve been in the Apple ecosystem for a very long time), and I feel I’m too close to it to have a reasonably objective viewpoint on it one way or the other.

With me one example of poor UX with iOS 16 they’ve butchered “Do Not Disturb”. While I appreciate the added user control of Focus tabs, it has made DnD a much more annoying feature to use and access. Instead of a simple one-handed swipe up and press, I need to swipe up, click into the menu, and stretch my thumb while balancing my phone to enter DnD one-handed. For someone like me, who’s friends always seem to message at inopportune times and send 50 half sentences, its a rather common feature I enjoyed before that is now much worse to use.

Also Apple just killed some of my app notifs with the update and despite all of my settings being proper some apps like Instagram just don’t work.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#432

Post by acdha »

LegitShady wrote: post #10
Tepix wrote: post #5

Even if they only build 100,000 units, it should be enough to build hype and get developers onboard for their more affordable mass market 2nd gen device coming in 2025. For context, Oculus sold only 56,334 of their DK1 devkits.

Oculus were nobodies more or less back then and didn't have apple's supply chain expertise, and even still their devkits were only like $300 USD 10 years ago. I feel like the major cuts are because of lack of hype. I don't think anybody understands if there is a market for this, so nobody is sure how much money to put into developing for it. To me this feels like the first apple product in a long time without a compe…

> Oculus were nobodies more or less back then and didn't have apple's supply chain expertise, and even still their devkits were only like $300 USD 10 years ago.

Those also required a high-end PC costing costing thousands of dollars and lacked key technologies like eye-tracking. There simply won’t be bargains here for many years: VR is less demanding than AR but even there the low-end approach hasn’t seen popular adoption because your brain’s threshold for something seeming real is quite high and has failure modes like nausea and vomiting.

The Vision Pro is Apple’s take on that problem trying to see if they can sacrifice on pricing but actually hit a threshold where the quality is high enough to work for most people. It’s going to be interesting to see if the productivity applications they demoed are going to be as good as they looked – if that experiment doesn’t work at this price, it doesn’t bode well for the rest of the field.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#433

Post by jasomill »

catiopatio wrote: post #291
flohofwoe wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The macOS 'application centric' window system model is an excellent example IMHO. Alt-Tab (erm... Cmd-Tab) switching through applications instead of windows (and then having a separate hotkey to tab through windows, but only within one application), and that mess combined with the fact that there can be UI applications that just have a menu bar but no open windows is just incredibly bizarre (and even though I'm now a…

I love the application centric model; I find the “window” centric model to be incredibly messy. I’m assuming you came to macOS from some years using Windows?

Me too. If I had to keep a window open in — say — Photoshop open all the time just so I didn't have to wait ten seconds every time I open something with it, it'd drive me crazy.

Visual Studio on Windows does drive me crazy for exactly this reason, especially as each instance can only have one top-level document (solution) open at a time.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#434

Post by runamok »

goosedragons wrote: post #160
trws wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m actually curious about specifics here for macOS aside from things like hidden scroll bars. Mainly because I find it to be one of the most discoverable. If you go into the ‘help’ menu in any application, you get a search box that searches all the menus of the application, if a shortcut exists for the action it’s listed alongside it. Admittedly Qt and KDE can do this too, but only for QT apps, while on macOS it’s e…

How do you show hidden folders in Finder? You literally have to memorize a keyboard shortcut. How do you switch apps in full screen mode, you need to know trackpad gestures or keyboard shortcuts. Every post like 2004 addition to MacOS seems to be reliant on trackpad gestures to the point using the operating system with a mouse is a negative. The search bar in the menu is fine if there is a menu to search. IIRC or at…

Or hold down the option key while right clicking things or in certain dialog boxes. I guess that's not horrible if you internalize that fact but it's not discoverable.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#435

Post by disiplus »

MBCook wrote: post #114
disiplus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 3500 EUR MacBook pro for the only reason because my company bought it for me for work. There is no way in hell that I would spend that much for a MacBook, and I don't think my company would buy me a 4000eur vision pro. I have a gaming PC that I bought for 2000 EUR pc that I built for entertainment and some work. 4000 EUR is so much out there that I cannot imagine who is buying it with his own money

I’m a software developer. They’re not going to buy me one. Top designers for Ferrari? Famous architects working on buildings costs tens of millions? Other expensive people like that I can see it.

Only if there is content to create for people having apple vision pro. If there is not enough consumers I don't think that would be true.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#436

Post by pmontra »

ilinx wrote: post #138
JohnFen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple does UX well. I hear people say this often enough to question my own sanity, because I don't find Apple's UX to be very good at all. I find it confusing and it makes things difficult to figure out.

Could you provide an example of the sort of thing you’re talking about? Because I’m the type of person the other commenter was talking about (I’ve been in the Apple ecosystem for a very long time), and I feel I’m too close to it to have a reasonably objective viewpoint on it one way or the other.

Mac's windows system was good on the original Macintosh 1984, with a very small screen. It was worse than Windows' one for the Macs of the 90s with screen sizes comparable to the ones of the PCs. It was clear to me that a single global menu stuck at the top of the screen was a bad choice. I never bought a Mac because of that.

20 years later, given an Android and an iPhone, they were equally difficult (or easy) to use. Furthermore, after having used Android for years finding stuff on an iPhone was definitely difficult. Probably the other way around is true.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#437

Post by pmontra »

thunky wrote: post #189
ilinx wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide an example of the sort of thing you’re talking about? Because I’m the type of person the other commenter was talking about (I’ve been in the Apple ecosystem for a very long time), and I feel I’m too close to it to have a reasonably objective viewpoint on it one way or the other.

My dad got an iPhone despite us being an Android family because word on the street was that they're easy to use. For the life of him he can't he can't look at a text message while in a phone call and then get back to the call menu. He unknowingly mutes notifications for contacts and has no chance of figuring out how to unmute them. He accidentally calls his contacts all the time.

I think it was about 10 years ago: a friend got a message on her iPhone while she was driving and asked me to reply. I had a Samsung back then. I couldn't find a way to reply. I had to ask her to guide me through the UI then I finally made it.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#438

Post by pmontra »

Tepix wrote: post #11
LegitShady wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oculus were nobodies more or less back then and didn't have apple's supply chain expertise, and even still their devkits were only like $300 USD 10 years ago. I feel like the major cuts are because of lack of hype. I don't think anybody understands if there is a market for this, so nobody is sure how much money to put into developing for it. To me this feels like the first apple product in a long time without a compe…

I don't think they will have problems selling a few 100,000 units at $3500. The first testers report that the displays are indeed extraordinary and using them as desktop monitor replacements is feasible. That alone is a great use case.

Is it feasible or is it something they'll do day after day for one year up to the point that they'll store their monitor away in the basement?

By the way, how do you show something inside the VR headset to somebody sitting near to you? Do you buy two headsets one for you and one for guests? One for each family member?

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#439

Post by as_bntd »

ttepasse wrote: post #182
goosedragons wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you show hidden folders in Finder? You literally have to memorize a keyboard shortcut. How do you switch apps in full screen mode, you need to know trackpad gestures or keyboard shortcuts. Every post like 2004 addition to MacOS seems to be reliant on trackpad gestures to the point using the operating system with a mouse is a negative. The search bar in the menu is fine if there is a menu to search. IIRC or at…

> How do you switch apps in full screen mode, you need to know trackpad gestures or keyboard shortcuts. The Dock also works, although you have to move the pointer downwars to show it. In a lot of ways Clicking on Icons is MacOS foundation mode and everything else is superfluous. I, as a Poweruser, forget that sometimes. > IIRC or at least last time I used it the screenshot tool had no menus and was extremely unclear…

That screenshot utility is also accessible with ⇧⌘5, which might be invisible, but just letting you know.

As for where to save that screenshot, that is available in the Options section of the floating menu.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#440

Post by as_bntd »

krisoft wrote: post #258
goosedragons wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you show hidden folders in Finder? You literally have to memorize a keyboard shortcut. How do you switch apps in full screen mode, you need to know trackpad gestures or keyboard shortcuts. Every post like 2004 addition to MacOS seems to be reliant on trackpad gestures to the point using the operating system with a mouse is a negative. The search bar in the menu is fine if there is a menu to search. IIRC or at…

> How do you show hidden folders in Finder? You don't. They are hidden. If you are supposed to see them they shouldn't be hidden. I understand that other operating systems make a different choice about this, but that doesn't make their choice is the correct one.

⇧⌘.
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