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Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

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Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#331

Post by ozim »

dermesser wrote: post #262
ozim wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry on the nitpicking - we will have to dig into our pockets even if government does something. Government does not have magic money it is also “our money”. One would say government would levy fees on big companies but then companies will charge customers more.

Governments issue money, so yes they kind of do have magic money. Certainly a different access to money than private entities.

When they issue more money - money in my pocket lose value, still same thing.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#332

Post by tnbp »

ambyra wrote: post #124

Germany is “green” same as California: high air pollution with most energy imports of any state in the nation. Blood diamond economics applied to energy. I predict that France will become an international leader in nuclear energy, while Germany will kill the most birds.

Germany is a net exporter of electricity, and has been for over 20 years. Last year, France actually had to import electricity because their NPPs kept failing (too much heat, too little rain, no water to act as coolant).

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#333

Post by locallost »

mahkeiro wrote: post #280
locallost wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is total nonsense. I realize it's not in the spirit of HN, but it's obvious you did not check any data at all.

Ok energy-charts.info is providing all info regarding installed power and electricity generation for Germany. For heavy industries leaving Germany: * https://cen.acs.org/business/finance/BASF-cutting-back-main-... * https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/24/basf-cut-jo... * https://www.ifo.de/en/press-release/2022-10-20/germanys-glas... * https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-industry-europe-ener... Here you…

BASF is a drop in the bucket and it left not because of high electricity prices like you claimed, but high natural gas prices which they directly use for production. e.g. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/basf-could-cut-outpu...

> BASF is already reducing production of ammonia, which relies heavily on natural gas, and sourcing some it its ammonia needs from outside Europe, where gas prices are lower.

Heavy industries in general will take a while to electrify (globally), you can read on the challenges of that e.g. here https://www.iea.org/articles/the-challenge-of-reaching-zero-...

So again, sorry, but you are off.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#334

Post by Timon3 »

llampx wrote: post #303
locallost wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong in terms of emissions is that they take forever to plan and build. During which time, Poland will continue to produce its electricity almost exclusively from coal. These are real emissions that can't be made up for once the nuclear plants are finished. The alternative is to replace a lot of the coal really fast with renewables. Further more, it's cheaper so you can replace a lot more than with nuclear.

There was a very good article on HN about how nuclear reactors only seem to have gotten harder to plan and execute in Western countries since the 1980s due to ever-increasing regulations. Building a nuclear reactor doesn't have to take decades.

But regulations are what makes nuclear energy supposedly safe. Faster build times aren't worth it if we risk nuclear meltdowns.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#335

Post by locallost »

llampx wrote: post #303
locallost wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong in terms of emissions is that they take forever to plan and build. During which time, Poland will continue to produce its electricity almost exclusively from coal. These are real emissions that can't be made up for once the nuclear plants are finished. The alternative is to replace a lot of the coal really fast with renewables. Further more, it's cheaper so you can replace a lot more than with nuclear.

There was a very good article on HN about how nuclear reactors only seem to have gotten harder to plan and execute in Western countries since the 1980s due to ever-increasing regulations. Building a nuclear reactor doesn't have to take decades.

That's a favorite of mine because at the same time those same regulations are cited as the reason why the plants are incredibly safe.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#336

Post by phicoh »

mhandley wrote: post #94
sparkling wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because electricity is only one part of the overall energy usage. Heating is still ~75% fossil-based (oil, gas).

Yes, but there's little point in electrifying heating until you have a cleaner grid. Right now, the marginal source of power in Germany is coal and in the UK is mostly gas (occasionally coal). If you switch your heating to electric heating, that's how the electricity would be generated. With gas as the marginal source, if you switch from a modern condensing gas boiler to an air-source heat pump with a COP of 2.5, you…

If you are in Germany or the UK, you would expect a COP of around 4 from a serious system. Or at least, COP4 is what we expect in the Netherlands, and the climate is not that different. COP 2.5 is a sign of a poor setup.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#337

Post by tnbp »

thiago_fm wrote: post #34

Living in Germany is leaving any big city and seeing loads of wind turbines everywhere. I know very little of its economics, like that it typically takes 7 years to pay it back and lasts 20-25 years, but looks like a good way to generate renewable energy and will likely soon take Germany to 100%. It's a goal for the government and for many years it has been pushing forward. I dislike many things here, but I can't say…

>>I know very little of its economics, like that it typically takes 7 years to pay it back and lasts 20-25 years

Are you talking money or energy? Energy takes about one year, not seven.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#338

Post by Timon3 »

harrid wrote: post #301
_ph_ wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the AfD is a right extremist party, one of their leading figures, Björn Höcke can now legally be called a Nazi.

And that's exactly proof of how immensely far left Germany's politics have shifted. In absolute terms, the AFD is a left leaning party. They still support "immigration" for example.

Could you explain how the AfD is left leaning? Their positions align with the right:

- stopping immigration

- stronger rights for police and authorities

- emphasis on classical gender roles, ban of LGBT "propaganda" (as they call it)

- lowering taxes and reducing government size

- leaving the Euro zone and creating a new currency

And since they are taking these positions to their extremes, it seems entirely fair to call them "extreme right". No other parties would keep literal Nazis among their leadership.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#339

Post by phicoh »

Aachen wrote: post #320
phicoh wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a perfectly reasonable transition strategy. Install as much solar and wind turbines as possible and rely on natural gas plants are other times. Natural gas plants are relatively cheap and can in the future be converted to hydrogen. The big advantage is that solar and wind can directly reduce CO2 emissions, instead of waiting for decades for new nuclear power to come online. Converting heating of buildings t…

You're mostly right of course, but keep in mind that "waiting for decades for nuclear to come online" is not a fair comparison. Nuclear: pick ten locations -> allocate the money for each -> it goes five times over budget but in the end you have 80% of your energy need taken care of. By the time they're done, the remaining 20% is covered by renewables (we're already almost at that point. If only we had kept nuclear...…

I don't know the projected number for Germany in 2050, but 10 locations could mean that you would need 30 GW per location (just a rough estimate). At todays prices for nuclear power that is an insane amount of money that needs to be put on the table upfront.

Experience in The Netherlands shows that if people benefit, they are a lot less resistant. People are eager to put solar on their own roofs, if it has a good return on investment. But also wind turbines owned by local cooperations meet far less resistance than turbines owned by a big company.

Of course The Netherlands has the advantage that there is plenty of space at sea for wind turbines.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#340

Post by locallost »

fsflover wrote: post #330
locallost wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very interested in this topic and I assure you that nobody complains about Poland. I've seen even praise for their decision to prolong this situation and build nuclear plants. On the other hand, a country very much in deserve of praise like Germany is a constant target of criticism by various nuclear lobby groups, astroturfers and the like. You can see the effect even here on HN, it's a very common topic that "G…

I do praise Poland for building nuclear plants. This is the only existing solution to the climate catastrophe. Also, it's one of the the most safe energy sources. This is not "simply false". This is effectively true, even though it might not be the intention. There are many similar discussions about it on HN. See for example this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35819870 .

So Germany uses less coal continuously and plans to stop using it 2030. You say: terrible and too slow.

Poland uses a lot more coal, has no real plan to reduce it, and wants to continue at the same level for the next 15 years or so. You say: awesome job.

You can't be serious.

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