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Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

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Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#321

Post by volkl48 »

hdivider wrote: post #166
passwordoops wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the issues I take living in Quebec I look at my 0.07 CAD/kWh and it reminds me this place does have some advantages

Interesting. So what are the disadvantages of living in Quebec? (Never been there.)

If you don't speak fluent French and want to live there (as a tourist is fine, although outside MTL + Quebec City, English proficiency by the residents should not be assumed), your government dislikes you and is generally trying to make your life harder in as many ways as it can think of. I would expect that to continue getting worse.

On the HN/startup crowd note, that includes mandates that business in the office be generally conducted in French if you have 25+ employees, and there's significant enforcement powers to those mandates now.

Beyond that, the economy has lagged that of other provinces over past decades, although in recent years that's been less true - remains to be seen if that performance is a break with the long-term trends or not.

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More subjective:

It's generally going to be the "big government" model. Highest taxes on high earners in Canada, generally a reputation for more social services, more regulations.

Climate's pretty rough to many, although not extreme by Canadian standards. Still, it's a big difference from Southern Ontario or Vancouver.

Montreal is basically the only major "world" city, Quebec City is about the only other one of some national/international significance.

While it may look big on a map or as a number, in reality nearly the entire population lives in a relatively small corridor and much of the land area of the province is virtually uninhabited and in many cases basically inaccessible short of a helicopter or serious wilderness expedition. It will not feel anything like being 4x the size of Germany even if it technically is, for an example.

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Anyway, the power is cheap because it all comes from large hydro plants up north, they're blessed by geography in that sense.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#322

Post by martinald »

adrianN wrote: post #309
eldaisfish wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is energy storage a solved problem? All the battery storage in the world today would power half of Germany's minimum electrical load for minutes.

Germany has enough storage capacity for natural gas to last a couple of months. The same can be build for Hydrogen. Some of the existing infrastructure can even be reused.

Yes but you need 10s or 100s of GW of hydrogen electrolyzers, which are expensive, and they will only be running a small % of the the time (when there is excess renewables).

I'm not sure how much existing natural gas infrastructure can be reused given how much lighter hydrogen is and I assume it needs much tighter tolerances on all the equipment compared to natgas.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#323

Post by Aachen »

martin_a wrote: post #149
Aachen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is my tech bubble, but try to find a country with higher Linux/PGP/OpenStreetMap use. I am still trying to put my finger on what the culture difference is precisely, but also outside of tech there's more thinking about what the right/correct/fair thing to do is, even if that brings greater net harm in the end. Example: closing down nuclear because it's not a perfect solution and has risks and waste (ignori…

> not caring that renewables are decades away Pffft... If the government wuold decide to buy balcony solar systems for 1.000 Euro each for every household, that would come down to a mere 41 billion Euro for the whole state and that would solve lots of all of this. They found 100 billion for the Bundeswehr without any problem in the blink of an eye. If you really wanted, the whole energy topic would be set up and solv…

You're forgetting that not everyone wants such a thing on their balcony and that you'll need to find someone to manufacture all of that (other countries want their solar still, too; it doesn't help us to deny Australia years of solar panel production only to put many on cloudy north-facing German balconies).

I don't know what the acceptance percentage as well as a realistic manufacturing rate is at such an order size (probably pretty fast), but it sounds like you're assuming the answers are "near 100%" and "a few years".

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#324

Post by throwaway98721 »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #103
shawabawa3 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Temporary or not, coal is being burned to produce electricity in Germany > and mostly not for nuclear plants. electricity is fungible. It doesn't matter what electricity the coal is intending to replace, as long as _any_ coal is being turned into electricity, that's coal that could not have been burned if a nuclear plant was generating that electricity instead

> electricity is fungible. Which is irrelevant. Electricity is not the main purpose of coal.

[dead]

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#325

Post by karmakurtisaani »

locallost wrote: post #77
thiago_fm wrote: post #34

Living in Germany is leaving any big city and seeing loads of wind turbines everywhere. I know very little of its economics, like that it typically takes 7 years to pay it back and lasts 20-25 years, but looks like a good way to generate renewable energy and will likely soon take Germany to 100%. It's a goal for the government and for many years it has been pushing forward. I dislike many things here, but I can't say…

The US does invest in it, almost all new capacity added is renewables, has been for several years now, and this will not change unless something happens. The fastest grower is Texas of all places simply because it's really cheap. Birds are not an environmental issue, it was just a made up talking point that was debunked. Windows and cars are responsible for an order of magnitude more bird deaths.

Furthermore, offshore wind farms are great for birds. They provide more surface area for algae and other stuff to grow underwater, which then feeds to the rest of the ecosystem.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#326

Post by stuaxo »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #267
malermeister wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With individual transport, you move ~2 tons of metal for a payload of one person, a weight/person ratio of 2. With high-speed rail, you move ~400 tons of metal for ~450 people, a ratio of ~0.9. [0] This does not even account for factors such as inherently more efficient transmission from steel to steel vs rubber/concrete and the more efficient electric engines of a modern train compared to the combustion engine. Neit…

You forget that most people don't live or work next to the rail station. That makes rail inefficient in the only way that matters to most people - their time. (I say that as someone who takes trains to work most days.)

They don't ?

Plenty do, or live a short bus journey away.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#327

Post by voqv »

Gwypaas wrote: post #294
voqv wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just selecting 2023 as a timeframe isn't good data. You can see here [1] that on a time frame of 2000 to 2022 Germany is yet to replace reduction of nuclear generation (Kernkraft) with renewables. Construction of renewables in 2023 has only accelerated 50% relative to 2022 [2]. [1] https://www.tech-for-future.de/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/... [2] https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/installed_power/chart....

> You can see here [1] that on a time frame of 2000 to 2022 Germany is yet to replace reduction of nuclear generation (Kernkraft) with renewables Which is another misrepresentation of statistics given that we use less electricity today than 20 years ago. See this page for "all varieties" of the same graphs. Generally coal is on a downward trajectory, except the blip for the Covid years. https://www.cleanenergywire.or…

I'm not sure at which one of those graphs I should be looking at. The gross power consumption one seems to refute your own claim. The total gross electricity usage of Germany in 1990 was 551 Twh, 587 twh in 2003 and is currently around 550 Twh. Current expectations is that usage will grow to 650 Twh in 2030 and to 750+ Twh in 2050.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#328

Post by locallost »

fsflover wrote: post #277
locallost wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should complain about emissions and emission reduction. Are emissions too high in Germany? Yes. Are they going down? Yes. Does it have a set date to remove coal from electricity production? Yes. So good things and a bright future, yet a lot of complaints. In case of Poland neither is the case. I have yet to see an article complaining about Poland, despite it being neither good, nor it having a bright future. W…

We do complain about Poland. But this is a thread about Germany. > Does it have a set date to remove coal from electricity production? Yes. The date is simply ridiculous. 2030 or so AFAIK? We expect much more effort from such a developed country.

I am very interested in this topic and I assure you that nobody complains about Poland. I've seen even praise for their decision to prolong this situation and build nuclear plants. On the other hand, a country very much in deserve of praise like Germany is a constant target of criticism by various nuclear lobby groups, astroturfers and the like. You can see the effect even here on HN, it's a very common topic that "Germany replaced nuclear with coal", which is just simply false.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#329

Post by Taig »

eldaisfish wrote: post #208
Taig wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European electricity market is working quite well, imports and exports are expected to happen. Countries prefer to import electricity when it is cheaper than producing it themselves. Germany has more than enough capacity installed to handle its energy needs (even if a lot of this is still fossil). Germany does not have an "often unstable electricity grid", not at all. That information is simply wrong.

Many of your comments are misleading and are often renewable energy propaganda. "In 2023, Germany lacks 15 to 20 gigawatt of secured power output”. This comment was from Harald Schwarz, Professor for energy distribution and high voltage technology at the Brandenburg University of Technology. EU Fact check rates this as mostly true. The claim that germany has sufficient capacity for its energy needs is just wrong.

That is true, but it is also not the goal to achieve 100% secured power output, nor is it necessary. The calculations that determine the necessary electricity production to cover Germany's needs at all times are more complicated than just looking at the installed secured power output and involve factors, such as the likelihood of unavailable renewable energy production. And even if the worst case happens, there are solid strategies in place to avoid a blackout, including backup power plants and coordination with high energy consumers to reduce or shut down their consumption.

And all of this still ignores the fact, that there is a highly connected international electricity market, that large scale storage solutions are being prepared, and that the grid is becoming more decentralized.

Re: Germany Achieves Record 57.7% Renewable Energy Share for First Half of 2023

#330

Post by fsflover »

locallost wrote: post #328
fsflover wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do complain about Poland. But this is a thread about Germany. > Does it have a set date to remove coal from electricity production? Yes. The date is simply ridiculous. 2030 or so AFAIK? We expect much more effort from such a developed country.

I am very interested in this topic and I assure you that nobody complains about Poland. I've seen even praise for their decision to prolong this situation and build nuclear plants. On the other hand, a country very much in deserve of praise like Germany is a constant target of criticism by various nuclear lobby groups, astroturfers and the like. You can see the effect even here on HN, it's a very common topic that "G…

I do praise Poland for building nuclear plants. This is the only existing solution to the climate catastrophe. Also, it's one of the the most safe energy sources.

This is not "simply false". This is effectively true, even though it might not be the intention. There are many similar discussions about it on HN. See for example this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35819870.

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