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Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

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Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#411

Post by cxr »

troupo wrote: post #235
rchaud wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not looking at the iPhone in a vaccuum. I'm also taking into consideration other things Apple has inexplicably delayed for multiple years: - support for mouse input - a native file manager app (2017!) - pressure-sensitive pens and screens (~ 4 years after Samsung) - Multiple apps on same screen (2019!) None of these are things that take years to get right. Apple commentators simply get lazy and recycle this iPod-…

> a native file manager app (2017!) What would you do with one on a device where every app is heavily sandboxed and there's no common file system? > pressure-sensitive pens and screens (~ 4 years after Samsung) When they did release this, no competition was even close to the precision and fidelity. When Apple releases something later than competition it's usually (but not always) justified and results in a better exe…

> What would you do with one on a device where every app is heavily sandboxed and there's no common file system?

Access each app's sandbox to move/copy/exfiltrate the data contained there, for whatever reason the user desires. Not much different from the way file managers are used on traditional desktop systems.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#412

Post by dickersnoodle »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #146
haswell wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the enduring myths about Apple's late entry into product sectors is the idea that they're waiting to "get it right". The first iPhone was a joke, it took them until the 3GS to get it right. I don't agree that this is a myth. If you look at the first generation iPhone in a vacuum, it was limited, perhaps (but I think there are plenty of arguments that the first gen iPhone was pushing envelopes - name one othe…

> When operating at Apple's scale, at least a decade of roadmap if not more was already planned in depth. I highly doubt that considering that web app / native app store debacle. Also was there any real reason to not support 3g from the beginning? A lot of “dumber” phones had it so it seems more likely that they just made a mistake.

IMO it's only a debacle for developers who don't want to learn the native platform or don't think they can do it.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#413

Post by haswell »

rchaud wrote: post #178
haswell wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the enduring myths about Apple's late entry into product sectors is the idea that they're waiting to "get it right". The first iPhone was a joke, it took them until the 3GS to get it right. I don't agree that this is a myth. If you look at the first generation iPhone in a vacuum, it was limited, perhaps (but I think there are plenty of arguments that the first gen iPhone was pushing envelopes - name one othe…

I'm not looking at the iPhone in a vaccuum. I'm also taking into consideration other things Apple has inexplicably delayed for multiple years: - support for mouse input - a native file manager app (2017!) - pressure-sensitive pens and screens (~ 4 years after Samsung) - Multiple apps on same screen (2019!) None of these are things that take years to get right. Apple commentators simply get lazy and recycle this iPod-…

Regarding looking at the iPhone in a vacuum, I was referring to the iPhone gen 1 vs. the iPhone product line as a whole. The point was that the claims don't make sense unless you look at just the first generation of the product, which was clearly not Apple's vision.

Regarding other features, I don't understand the connection you're trying to draw here, or how they serve as counterpoints. All these anecdotes point to is where Apple has chosen to focus resources and in what order. Having worked on a product team, there are dozens of "obvious" things that get cut from every release. I don't see this as some enormous indictment of the product.

Mouse input on what? iPhone? Is this a thing?

A native file manager is a feature that applies to a small subset of users. Do some people want it? Sure! Does a lack of it somehow imply Apple is failing? I think that's hard to argue. Anecdotally, as a highly technical user, I rarely if ever touch that app. I don't think most of my friends/family know it exists.

Multiple apps on the same screen ... on the only tablet in the market worth considering. Again, this is a gripe about roadmap order and not an effective argument against the core claim.

And core to the claim is the fact that Apple is often late to the party.

> None of these are things that take years to get right. Apple commentators simply get lazy and recycle this iPod-era talking point.

I don't think anyone is making the claim that these things take years to get right. More interesting than this would be to examine what they chose to ship instead.

If you don't believe the iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, MacBook Air and AirPods are market-defining products, we'll have to just agree to disagree. It's not as if the iPod was the last product to resemble the "Apple does it better" pattern.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#414

Post by troupo »

cxr wrote: post #411
troupo wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a native file manager app (2017!) What would you do with one on a device where every app is heavily sandboxed and there's no common file system? > pressure-sensitive pens and screens (~ 4 years after Samsung) When they did release this, no competition was even close to the precision and fidelity. When Apple releases something later than competition it's usually (but not always) justified and results in a better exe…

> What would you do with one on a device where every app is heavily sandboxed and there's no common file system? Access each app's sandbox to move/copy/exfiltrate the data contained there, for whatever reason the user desires. Not much different from the way file managers are used on traditional desktop systems.

> Access each app's sandbox to move/copy/exfiltrate the data contained there, for whatever reason the user desires.

That breaks the security promise that apps don't have direct access to other apps' data.

There's a reason you can't even access photos without an explicit user prompt.

> Not much different from the way file managers are used on traditional desktop systems

Traditional desktop systems never had heavily sandboxed apps with no outside access

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#415

Post by cxr »

troupo wrote: post #414
cxr wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would you do with one on a device where every app is heavily sandboxed and there's no common file system? Access each app's sandbox to move/copy/exfiltrate the data contained there, for whatever reason the user desires. Not much different from the way file managers are used on traditional desktop systems.

> Access each app's sandbox to move/copy/exfiltrate the data contained there, for whatever reason the user desires. That breaks the security promise that apps don't have direct access to other apps' data. There's a reason you can't even access photos without an explicit user prompt. > Not much different from the way file managers are used on traditional desktop systems Traditional desktop systems never had heavily sa…

> That breaks the security promise that apps don't have direct access to other apps' data.

No it doesn't. Giving the user the ability to get their hands on their own data is not the same as giving other apps direct access to it.

> Traditional desktop systems never had heavily sandboxed apps with no outside access

That's completely orthogonal.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#416

Post by Filligree »

kgwxd wrote: post #264
Filligree wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be getting one to use for coding. One person does not a demand frenzy make, but having 'infinite' monitor space is a killer app to me.

Having something on my face all day and looking like a minor burn victim for an hour after isn’t worth all the space in the universe.

If it's that uncomfortable, then I won't be buying one either. I hope they've worked out how to avoid that, ahem, result.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#417

Post by _rutinerad »

flohofwoe wrote: post #213
DragonStrength wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good example of typical UX complaints which boil down to "this is not the thing I learned on." I personally don't think the early 2000s were the peak of computer UX, but I understand that most people don't like change.

The thing is that up to around the early 2000's, UX decisions were backed by actual research, not the aesthetic whims of an egocentric designer.

Yeah, right

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#418

Post by Dalewyn »

catiopatio wrote: post #281
Dalewyn wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is you aren't their intended audience. I too thought Apple UIs were confoundingly bad, but one day I decided to take a step back and approach it as any ordinary man would. I pretended I knew nothing and cared nothing about computers. You know what happened? It was intuitive. It was consistent. It was harmonious. My mind was blown. Apple UIs are made for the ordinary man, not for tech nerds and professiona…

I’d suggest you didn’t look at it from the perspective of an “ordinary man”, but instead, you dropped your longstanding assumptions from using Windows.

Practically speaking that's the same thing, normal people don't know and don't care about Windows vs. MacOS vs. Linux. It's a computer, and they hate it.

Apple at least designs their UIs to accomodate how normal people use computers, which is why their stuff doesn't mesh well with tech nerds and professionals without a mindset change. We are not normal people.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#419

Post by theshrike79 »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #155
theshrike79 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of software would you sell to corporations or rich early adopters? We'll see in Q1/2024 when the Vision Pro comes out for real.

apple enterprise is an even thinner slice of that

All you need is something like the Avatar 3 production buying a 1000 of these so they can show the previz live for everyone on the greenscreen set.

Re: Apple forced to make major cuts to Vision Pro headset production plans

#420

Post by glimshe »

mpweiher wrote: post #269
glimshe wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a daily mac user at work (against my will), there is much to complain about mac's UX. The big problem here is that no way anyone is objective given that most UX becomes "good" after repeated use. I have many examples, but I'll just pick one. When having multiple instances of an app, the doc adds a "dot" by the app icon. This dot is present no matter whether I have 2 instances or 10 instances. Oftentimes I forget i…

> When having multiple instances of an app, the doc adds a "dot" by the app icon. That's simply not the case. The dock adds a dot to the application icon if the application is running. If you have multiple instance of the application running, there will be multiple icons (each with a dot) in the dock. This is fairly difficult to do, the only way I know how is by starting the application again from the command line. W…

If the UX was intuitive, it would, well, be intuitive and I wouldn't need all these paragraphs.

Anyway, I'm using Chrome and that's what happens.

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