Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#161

Post by carlosjobim » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #57

alganet wrote: post #37

Some additions: Stores also cannot use their full façade for advertising. Branding colors and details are OK, but logos cannot be too large (don't know the exact rule). The law is picky. Some stores cheat by having a glass façade, and using LEDs inside that glass. Like this: https://imgur.com/a/CLdUD1C Since this law was adopted, there's been an increase in full building graffiti, which is not banned. Now 10 years la…

> Since this law was adopted, there's been an increase in full building graffiti, which is not banned. Now 10 years later, it is more likely to see one of these nowadays than an empty outdoor frame Nearly all of these look like murals, not graffiti (these are distinct forms of street art). Regardless, those photos are beautiful and I'd love to have those instead of billboards in my city.

Almost all of the city of São Paulo is covered in gang graffiti, buildings covered in these rune-like tags from top to bottom. It is extremely ugly, and of course also unsettling since it is a signal on who runs the city.

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#162

Post by thecaio » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:42 PM UTC

Dude from Sao Paulo here. I found this law a blessing. The picture in the articles make it look like the city is scattered with abandoned billboards but that's not the case. You won't see any one from SP complaining from this piece of law. City looks better, with intrusive, cheap-looking street advertising (mostly) gone. Businesses survided.

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#163

Post by Luctct » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

soapdog wrote: post #147

Luctct wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither murals nor graffiti is art. None of those would have been accepted in any gallery some 30~40 years ago when standards were higher and the world didn't suffer from the high number of grown-up men who are hooked up on comic books and animated cartoons it suffers through today. A lot of it is just vandalism. None of it seems to be made by or for adults. 99% looks like it's made by some comic book fan on LSD. Alw…

As someone who graduated from an art school, let me be another voice here to say that you're absolutely wrong. Art is about intentionality and process. Duchamp and Wahrol are prime mainstream examples of that. The intervention in urban equipment is art. Making it yours, sharing it with the world, the dialectical dialogue between the mural and the surrounding cityscape, there is so much to unpack here. Also, comic boo…

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Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#164

Post by kattagarian » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:46 PM UTC

tobr wrote: post #85

gota wrote: post #9

> Seven years on, the world's fourth-largest metropolis and South America’s most important city remains free of visual clutter and eye sore that plagues the majority of cities around the world. Unfortunately it suffers greatly - to a ridiculous level, in some places - from that ugliest kind of grafitti, convoluted "tags" made in single-stroke black ink I'm not sure if that is the case everywhere but in Brazil people…

I’d take ugly street art over ugly advertisement. At least it’s not trying to manipulate you.

at least advertisement is not made on the wall of your house without your consent

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#165

Post by baliex » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:46 PM UTC

andsoitis wrote: post #4

Love the idea, but the execution can be better. The photos show empty billboard frames, remnants of old ads against walls, etc., making things look dilapidated but not in an Anthens-ancient-ruin kind of way.

There is certainly a beauty in those remnants being left behind.

Yes, the place would look objectively tidier without them. But, given the context of what they used to be, I would enjoy the daily reminder that there used to be ads and now they're gone

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#166

Post by Luctct » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:49 PM UTC

tchaffee wrote: post #94

Luctct wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither murals nor graffiti is art. None of those would have been accepted in any gallery some 30~40 years ago when standards were higher and the world didn't suffer from the high number of grown-up men who are hooked up on comic books and animated cartoons it suffers through today. A lot of it is just vandalism. None of it seems to be made by or for adults. 99% looks like it's made by some comic book fan on LSD. Alw…

You're uninformed about it all being the same. The graffiti in São Paulo has a vast range of styles. I have hundreds of photos I've taken myself. This fine art I can see outdoors is one of the most pleasurable things about living or visiting there. I studied art in university, am an artist myself, and visit major exhibitions around the world on a regular basis. Much graffiti is indeed valid art.

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Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#167

Post by ffgjgf1 » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:50 PM UTC

mymythisisthis wrote: post #106

crazygringo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so you know, the exact same thing was said about pretty much every major art movement over the past century and beyond. When you say, "None of it seems to be made by or for adults", the same was basically said of Salvador Dalí and Andy Warhol and Paul Gauguin and Henri Matisse. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :)

The funny thing is, the classical art of Greece, probably looked much different than how we think about it. It was much more colorful and vibrant, it's just that all the pigment washed away. https://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/l... Cities adding art back onto the walls, is probably closer to how the ancient Greek cities actually looked. Our classical architectural view of pristine white walls i…

I refuse to believe that the people who made some of the best ancient statues had an artistic sense of a 5-year old when it came to color...

Obviously ancient status were colored but probably in a much nicer way. No way something like:

https://static.frieze.com/files/inline-images/web-cg-h-102-a...

could be even close to the original ( considering that the Romans generally managed to somehow get skin tones more or less right in the few paintings that survived)

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#168

Post by woodruffw » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:50 PM UTC

causality0 wrote: post #114

kibwen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since this law was adopted, there's been an increase in full building graffiti, which is not banned. Now 10 years later, it is more likely to see one of these nowadays than an empty outdoor frame Nearly all of these look like murals, not graffiti (these are distinct forms of street art). Regardless, those photos are beautiful and I'd love to have those instead of billboards in my city.

Are building murals not associated with ghettos outside the US? Where I live you know if you start seeing big faces on walls you're in the bad part of town and need to be careful.

On the East Coast of the US, I associate large graffiti murals with gentrification, particularly of industrial/formerly industrial neighborhoods. In many (but not all) instances, murals are commissioned or otherwise encouraged as part of "beautifying" those areas.

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#169

Post by thebradbain » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

Luctct wrote: post #119

ericmay wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One key difference is the scale. You can think of a billboard as really bad graffiti that’s shoved in your face to manipulate you. Graffiti is ugly too (not to be confused with urban art) and should always be removed. Generating money for the government isn’t something to be concerned with in this context, and most likely a billboard doesn’t generate enough money for the government versus the drain it has on the publ…

You see, you just said that "We just don’t have the tools yet to objectively define beauty" and "Boston City Hall is objectively an awful building" (and holy shit, it really is awful) in the same paragraph! Don't you see the contradiction? In another comment here, someone said, "I'm not arguing for or against that - I'm just stating a fact (...) I find it extremely ugly." Hey, "I find it extremely ugly" IS arguing ag…

Unpopular opinion, but Boston City Hall is an objectively VERY beautiful building.

Brutalism is absolutely an acquired taste, but it is, by all measures, an objective style that can be measured against, in the same way classical or say, Spanish Mission architecture style is. In fact, some would even go so far as to argue that most Victorian/neo-classical architecture is just a chintzy facade with no real architectural rules, akin to a Vegas casino or a Cheesecake Factory (I wouldn’t, but some would).

But as far as Boston City Hall being “objectively” ugly— that’s an objectively wrong statement. I can understand the vast majority might unfortunately say they personally find it ugly, but that is subjective.

I have the same views on e.g. Dallas City Hall too, which I think is another stunning example of a beautiful building many people hate.

Saying a pile of trash covered in mold and feces is objectively ugly— I’d agree there. Barring that, though, I’m of the strong opinion that most anything expressive, including graffiti, is “art”. Your response to whether you find it beautiful or not is your own, but that does not make it art or not.

Re: Sao Paulo: A city with no outdoor advertisements (2013)

#170

Post by vjjsejj » Tue, Jul 04, 2023, 4:52 PM UTC

Luctct wrote: post #166

tchaffee wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're uninformed about it all being the same. The graffiti in São Paulo has a vast range of styles. I have hundreds of photos I've taken myself. This fine art I can see outdoors is one of the most pleasurable things about living or visiting there. I studied art in university, am an artist myself, and visit major exhibitions around the world on a regular basis. Much graffiti is indeed valid art.

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To be fair you definitely do sound like an “artist”