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Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

michael.stapelberg.ch

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Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#361

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

bernawil wrote: post #308
hilbert42 wrote: post #298

"Is a matte screen the better option compared to the 8K monitor’s glossy finish? Surprisingly, I found that I don’t like the matte screen better! It’s hard to describe, but somehow the picture seems more “dull”, or less bright (independent of the actual brightness of the monitor), or more toned down. The colors don’t pop as much." A useful post. Whilst I've not yet had the luxury of owning a 6k or 8k monitor his comm…

Matte never made sense at all. I have no idea how matte ever made it into PC monitors. I mean, before lcd screens all screen surfaces where smooth glass. Then came LCD in plastic. Did the early LCD tech necessitate that the outside layer be not as smooth for some reason? Maybe it was just a coincidence that was later cargo-culted? Anyway, there's a reason macbooks, and almost every TV uses a glossy surface. Their mai…

> Their main supposed advantage, that they mitigate glare, is just false.

It is very true, contrary to what you claim. The glare on my old trusty Dell U2413 matte display is next to non-existent compared to Apple M1 Air that is hooked to it.

Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#362

Post by veidr »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #355
veidr wrote: post #170

Absolutely, hell no, if you are talking about the screen itself. The difference in crispness between the Dell UP321K (~280ppi at 7680x64280 at 31.5 inches) and this new U3224KBA (~220ppi at 6144 x 3456 at 32") is dramatic . The new Dell 6K is about the same as the Apple 6K (the XDR Pro Display). I had that 6K Apple and the 8K Dell side-by-side on my desk for a few months (until I could find a buyer for the dramatical…

> I need my glasses to use the 6K for long stretches and I don't even really need to wear them with the 8K It’s not obvious to me why this would happen. Can you share why this is?

No, I found it really surprising myself.

With my glasses on, though, the 6K (or 27" 5K) look less crisp but somehow not fuzzy. Like I can see the antialiasing at the edges, but this doesn't look blurry to me. (It just looks more like a 4K display, where the antialiasing isn't great, you can see the pixels.)

With my glasses off, I cannot make out the antialiasing or pixels the 220ppi screens, but it looks fuzzy/blurry. Like its right at the edge of what my unaided eye can resolve.

After a while (hours), looking at the blurry text has me rubbing my eyes or starting to squint.

The 8K screen doesn't look blurry at the edges of letters. It just looks sharp.

I have wondered if this is something specific to exactly how much my eyesight has deteriorated with age, and maybe when it gets a little bit worse, it won't bother me as much. (?)

Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#363

Post by simias »

p1necone wrote: post #350
teruakohatu wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And afaik there are no external HDMI pixel doublers on the market, I would buy one in a heartbeat. Sounds like a fun project, you should build one.

I did look into it a little bit, I think the reason none exist is because it's actually pretty difficult. Taking in a 720p hdmi signal and pixel doubling to 1440p or tripling to 4k and outputting that as a valid HDMI signal without adding more than a frame or two of lag would require custom chips. Although maybe a software solution involving a gpu might be possible?

FPGA is probably a safer bet if you want to minimize latency.

Implementation is left an as exercise for the reader.

Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#364

Post by marceldegraaf »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #260
jiggawatts wrote: post #180

We've had the technology for a while now to make an 8K HDR 120 Hz OLED monitor. The panel tech exists, the scalers exist, the ports and cables also both exist. We'll have this available for purchase any decade now... any decade. Soon, perhaps as early as the 2030s, 2040s tops! All joking aside, I'm tempted to create a GoFundMe page for this and see if there's other people out there interested in convincing a panel ma…

Since most computer OSs keep some things in the same place all day, wouldn't you get a lot of burn in with an OLED?

While most monitors these days have some protection built in to combat burn in, I believe it's still an issue, yes. It's why Monitors Unboxed (a brilliant YouTube channel, by the way) doesn't recommend[1] using an OLED monitor like the Asus ROG Swift PG42UQ for productivity work.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNBmFJ68SCw

Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#365

Post by kimburgess »

LoganDark wrote: post #327
kimburgess wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget 4K, 6K, or 8K. Pixel density is the spec when considering any display. It doesn't matter if it's a wearable, phone, laptop, monitor, TV, or stadium wrapping LED surface, the only important factors for resolution are the distance to the viewer's eyes and the distance between the pixels. For context, 20/20 vision is the ability to perceive 1 arcminute of angular resolution. Beyond that point there are diminishin…

> Forget 4K, 6K, or 8K. Pixel density is the spec when considering any display. I'm not really sure what you're refuting, if anything. Either I personally find 220ppi now rather unimpressive, or I found the 2015 MacBook display to have been especially impressive, but I am not sure which; all I was really saying is that they do indeed have quite similar pixel densities.

Nothing to refute - I was simply continuing from your highlight of pixel densities.

While PPI has stayed mostly static (which is a good engineering choice), plenty of other display parameters have improved: better contrast, faster response times, deeper colour, larger continuous surfaces. The 2015 MacBook display was impressive. Modern panels are too!

Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#366

Post by teruakohatu »

p1necone wrote: post #350
teruakohatu wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And afaik there are no external HDMI pixel doublers on the market, I would buy one in a heartbeat. Sounds like a fun project, you should build one.

I did look into it a little bit, I think the reason none exist is because it's actually pretty difficult. Taking in a 720p hdmi signal and pixel doubling to 1440p or tripling to 4k and outputting that as a valid HDMI signal without adding more than a frame or two of lag would require custom chips. Although maybe a software solution involving a gpu might be possible?

Interesting. Did you investigate FPGAs?

Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#367

Post by vladvasiliu »

lloeki wrote: post #337
vladvasiliu wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. From where I'm sitting, I can see the rainbow effects of antialiasing on my 4k 32" monitor. The easiest way to observe this is some skinny light text on a dark background. Other than that, I'm quite happy with my screen real-estate. So, I would indeed love it to have a higher resolution. I could probably use a somewhat bigger screen, a bit further away, that would do a better job as a TV the rare ti…

> I can see the rainbow effects of antialiasing on my 4k 32" monitor Are you talking about subpixel rendering? Leveraging individual R G and B dots needs knowledge of the layout to achieve increased resolution, and the algorithm should be adjusting (best effort) to compensate for human colour perception with knowledge of the subpixel layout + subpixel size. But usually it might be that the screen has a different layo…

I'm familiar with the subpixel arrangement issues. My display is RGB, according to its specs and to some review I've seen before buying it (I made a point of avoiding "non-standard" panels). I only notice this with very thin fonts, since sometimes the vertical lines end up "in between" pixels.

I agree that at some point grayscale AA is good enough. But I've found that that point is at a higher DPI than I get on a 4k 32" screen. On my 24" 4k screen grayscale is good enough, so the limit is somewhere in between for me.

Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#368

Post by hilbert42 »

trabant00 wrote: post #344
hilbert42 wrote: post #298

"Is a matte screen the better option compared to the 8K monitor’s glossy finish? Surprisingly, I found that I don’t like the matte screen better! It’s hard to describe, but somehow the picture seems more “dull”, or less bright (independent of the actual brightness of the monitor), or more toned down. The colors don’t pop as much." A useful post. Whilst I've not yet had the luxury of owning a 6k or 8k monitor his comm…

I always buy glossy TVs and matted monitors. The TV is only used for movies and I close all the blinds for the full cinematic experience. But I don't want to work in a dark office, it does not feel good and I don't think it's healthy either. Sure, glossy looks a lot better and the reason is simple: opacity. The anti reflection treatment is not 100% transparent. But glossy is unusable in a healthily lighted room.

"But glossy is unusable in a healthily lighted room."

As I said elsewwhere, I don't think matte is a problem in well-lit office environments as the usual office apps usually don't warrant the extra contrast and sharpness. That said, I used to run an IT operation and the matter arose quite often. What was telling is that some people simply didn't care about glare, they either moved their heads or just tilted the monitor a little whereas others found glare intolerable. I suppose that's why both types are available.

BTW, I'm one of those who doesn't find glare a problem, for some reason I 'tune' it out (I do the same with audio, I can listen to the radio through atrocious noise and static that drives others crazy).

Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#369

Post by kimburgess »

p1necone wrote: post #350
teruakohatu wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And afaik there are no external HDMI pixel doublers on the market, I would buy one in a heartbeat. Sounds like a fun project, you should build one.

I did look into it a little bit, I think the reason none exist is because it's actually pretty difficult. Taking in a 720p hdmi signal and pixel doubling to 1440p or tripling to 4k and outputting that as a valid HDMI signal without adding more than a frame or two of lag would require custom chips. Although maybe a software solution involving a gpu might be possible?

Take a look at the HDFury products. The X4 should do what you need with those lower resolutions.

Re: Can Dell’s 6K monitor beat their 8K monitor?

#370

Post by speleding »

skunkworker wrote: post #108
Matheus28 wrote: post #3

Slightly off topic but I can’t wait until there’s a 120 Hz 8K monitor. It’s the only thing holding me back from upgrading from 4K. I wonder if the current limitation is on the panels, cable bandwidth or absurd price tag…

I would love a 120Hz 8k 40 inch monitor. You could use 8k for productivity and then 4k for gaming.

For some reason all 40 inch monitors have disappeared off the market!

For me 40 inch is the sweet spot for coding: any larger and it gets too pixelated at 4K (you can make out the pixels, but that's OK for coding), the UI scale can be set at 100% so all is well proportioned. Entire classes/methods fit on a screen without scrolling.

I own two Philips 4K 40 inch monitors, they only cost ~$600 at the time, and I dread the day they stop working. I would be first in line for 6K or 8K, or any ≥4K really, at 40 inch.

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