Hofstadter said, "Well, maybe as important as the wheel." If AI significantly surpasses humanity in cognitive ability, then I think it will have a much bigger impact than the wheel. (I loved GEB and DH's other writings.) LLMs have really improved a lot of the last two years and they have shown many unexpected capabilities. I am guessing that they will get some more good input (text mostly), a lot more compute, and al…
(Hofstadter was quoting Geoff Hinton when he said that. What he himself compared the advance to was "fire".)
Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
111–120 of 520 posts
Re: Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
#112Interesting to hear him say this: > And I would never have thought that deep thinking could come out of a network that only goes in one direction, out of firing neurons in only one direction. And that doesn't make sense to me, but that just shows that I'm naive. I think people maybe miss that LLM output does involve a ‘loop’ back - maybe even a ‘strange’ loop back, and I’m surprised to see Hofstadter himself fail to…
I was surprised he said this too. Even without the autoregressive part of GPT models you have a deep transformer with attention, so even a single forward pass can modify its own intermediate outputs.
Re: Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
#113Interesting to hear him say this: > And I would never have thought that deep thinking could come out of a network that only goes in one direction, out of firing neurons in only one direction. And that doesn't make sense to me, but that just shows that I'm naive. I think people maybe miss that LLM output does involve a ‘loop’ back - maybe even a ‘strange’ loop back, and I’m surprised to see Hofstadter himself fail to…
I was surprised he said this too. Even without the autoregressive part of GPT models you have a deep transformer with attention, so even a single forward pass can modify its own intermediate outputs.
Re: Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
"This might be a risk" "No it's not, it hasn't materialized" Risk: Possibility of loss or injury Risks, definitionally, are things that have not happened yet.
Seeing how confidently and obtusely people dismiss the risks of AI makes me so much more fearful of what's to come. Human hubris knows no limits.
It is a little disconcerting that there is a fight between two somewhat cultish sects when it comes to language models. Both sides call them “artificial intelligence”, one side says they’ll save the world, the other side says they’ll end it.
There is very little room to even question “Is this actually AI that we’re looking at?” when loudest voices on the subject are VC tech bros and a Harry Potter fan fiction author that’s convinced people that he is prescient.
Re: Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
#115I read Hofstadter's GEB and Tegmark's Our Mathematical Universe, and of course I developed a rather fond admiration of these brilliant minds. For some reason, both of them have developed a profound aversion and fear of what they consider an existential threat. I have a solid theoretical understanding of these systems, and I spent 15 years studying, building, and deploying them at scale and for diverse use cases. The…
Re: Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
#116I read Hofstadter's GEB and Tegmark's Our Mathematical Universe, and of course I developed a rather fond admiration of these brilliant minds. For some reason, both of them have developed a profound aversion and fear of what they consider an existential threat. I have a solid theoretical understanding of these systems, and I spent 15 years studying, building, and deploying them at scale and for diverse use cases. The…
Also, I don't think that any of these people think that GPT-4 is itself an existential threat, but rather are worried about the exponential curve of development (I listened to Tegmark's Lex Podcast interview and that seemed to be his main concern). I think it's prudent to be worrying now, especially when capabilities growth is far outstripping safety. This is a huge concern to society whether you are considering, alignment, control, or even bad actor prevention/societal upheaval.
I've also been spending most of my waking hours these past months poking at LLM models and code, and trying to keep up on the latest ML research (it's own full time job), and while I do think there's a pretty good chances AI kills us all, I think it's much more likely it's because we make some incredibly capable AIs and people will tell them to do so, rather than it being contingent on an independent super-intelligence arising and deciding to on its own (although I do think that's a non-zero risk).
As you say, I guess we'll just have to see where we top out on this particular sigmoid, but I'm all for more people thinking through the implications, because I think so far I don't think we (as a society) have thought this through very well yet and all the money and momentum is going to keep pushing along that path.
Re: Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
AR will take off like crazy when they develop lightweight, clear goggles than can display color with a range of opacities. A million jobs are begging for HUDS that guide the worker, but the current equipment isn't there yet.
Stacking shelves in a supermarket is a perfect example. 1000s of products means that a bit of experience is required to know where everything goes in order to quickly stack. With a HUD, workers become productive much faster (and are more inter-changeable) - which is something large enterprises love.
Re: Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
As long as the AI is less generally intelligent than people, it makes sense to be more afraid of the people. Once the AI is more intelligent than the smartest people, it's more sensible to be most afraid of the AI.
The implication of OP's statement is that they don't believe that AGI is on the horizon, and I'm inclined to agree. This feels a lot like the hype surrounding self-driving cars a few years back, where everyone was convinced fully autonomous vehicles were ~5 years away. It turned out that, while the results we had were impressive, getting the rest of the way to fully replacing humans was much, much harder than was gen…
Eg, starting a mass movement online requires a few percent of online participants to take part in the movement. That could be faked today using a lot of GPT4 agents whipping up a storm on Twitter. And this sort of stuff shapes policies and elections. With the opensource LLM community picking up steam, it’s increasingly possible for one person to mass produce this sort of stuff, let alone nation state adversaries.
There’s a bunch of things like this that we need to watch out for.
For our industry, within this decade we’ll almost certainly have LLMs able to handle the context size of a medium software project. I think it won’t be long at all before the majority of professional software engineering is done by AIs.
There’s so much happening in AI right now. H100s are going to significantly speed up learning. Quantisation has improved massively. We have lots of papers around demoing new techniques to grow transformer context size. Stable diffusion XL comes out this month. AMD and Intel are starting to seriously invest in becoming competitors to nvidia in machine learning. (It’ll probably take a few years for PyTorch to run well on other platforms, but competition will dramatically lower prices for home AI workstations.)
Academia is flooded with papers full of new methods that work today - but which just haven’t found their way into chatgpt and friends yet. As these techniques filter down, our systems will keep getting smarter.
What a time to be alive.
Re: Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
#119This is something weird happening around Rationalism/X-Risk/AGI prognostications. The "Great Minds And Great Leaders" types are rushing to warn about the risks, as are a large number of people who spend a lot of time philosophizing. But the actual scientists on the ground -- the PhDs and engineers I work with every day and who have been in this field, at the bench, doing to work on the latest generation of generative…
What is his criticism? If you agree with silent majority who seem to think it's not dangerous why agree with Altman who rants regulation.
Re: Douglas Hofstadter changes his mind on Deep Learning and AI risk
#120I'll never forget that day when I was a junior at University of Oregon, and had just finished reading GEB. Hofstadter was from UO, and I was taking a data structures class from Andrzej Proskurowski, who knew Hofstadter. Andrzej was a pretty brilliant man who had a reputation for being very blunt. I was in his office hours and I asked him for his take on the book. He said, "Hofstadter is first order...bullshitter."