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Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

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Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#191

Post by TaylorAlexander »

mock-possum wrote: post #111
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #19

About two months ago I was at a festival with friends and a I had a psychedelic experience. What’s funny is earlier that day I had just told my friends “I know this sounds boring but I don’t like dancing that much.” Then while I was tripping I found that I was really enjoying the dancing. I felt like I was tapping in to a part of myself that had been dormant for a long time. I felt really confident and cool and sexy…

Sometimes people try psychedelics and have great experiences just like that! Sometimes they try psychedelics and they have baaaaaad experiences, that are essentially traumatic and result in lingering negative feelings. Risk versus reward! … but you don’t have to risk much, for your first time. Yes, tripping with your friends at a festival is great - but you can also do a little, on your own terms, to try it out, and…

> Sometimes people try psychedelics and have great experiences just like that! Sometimes they try psychedelics and they have baaaaaad experiences, that are essentially traumatic and result in lingering negative feelings.

> Risk versus reward!

Well something I did not say in my comment but I believe is very important is that it's not just "do drugs, win prizes" it's "take time over a period of years to learn how psychedelics work with your body, try some experiences in emotionally safe spaces, reflect on those trips with your friend and therapist, and develop some confidence to work your way up in dosage as you learn to understand how it works for you".

While some people may be able to randomly take a higher end dose and have a good result, I certainly advocate that people take their time to get in to these substances. I advocate for legalization because of what is possible with very careful use of them as a tool, but it takes some care to learn how to use them properly!

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#192

Post by TaylorAlexander »

ecshafer wrote: post #103
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I think people are unhappy because of an abusive political system designed to funnel all wealth to the top while everyone else works themselves to death. Collective action is absolutely the real solution, but psychedelics can help people locked in the mindset that things can’t change to consider a better world. There are simple things, like the fact that we are isolated. This according to Noam Chomsky is an intent…

The reverse seems much much more likely. The abusive political system pushes drug legalization as an opiate of the masses so they are more content to deal with the abusive political system. A weekend of legal drug use to make the pain go away and disrupt solidarity.

I agree with the other commenter that this is not how psychedelics work. They do not "make the pain go away" like depressants. If they have any effect on solidarity it would be to strengthen it, not disrupt it.

This is interestingly a great example of the point being made in TFA. That we need a new category for psychedelics because they are not anything like opiates etc.

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#193

Post by s1artibartfast »

vorpalhex wrote: post #188
standardUser wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could just as easily be describing therapy. Of course people sometimes need external help to achieve their goals or change their perspectives! Sometimes it's therapy, sometimes a vacation, sometimes a heart-to-heart with a close friend and sometimes a bunch of acid.

Dropping acid is maybe not the same thing as therapy sessions with a well qualified professional who is board certified, licensed and so on. If you just mean "try random things to see how it helps", I suppose you could start by finding Jesus or licking a cattle prod. Why limit yourself to just a few methods of magic insight?

Indeed why not try those things. People should be more open to new experiences as long as you're not hurting yourself or others. If you find that looking cattle prods makes you happy, more power to you

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#194

Post by kennyloginz »

spurgu wrote: post #182
andromeduck wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't DMT also naturally exist? So lidke any time you buy a live anim you're buying DMT.

It exists in many different plants and also in a few animals, for example the Colorado River toad.

The toad is 5meoDMT

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#195

Post by mensetmanusman »

shwaj wrote: post #76
crazygringo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the term found through decades of literature isn't attached to legal categories, as I explained. It's the same way the term "drug" doesn't have much legal distinction, as I can't think of any legal commonalities spanning coffee, alcohol, Lipitor, cannabis, and heroin. > Regardless, the laws... refer to specific chemicals by their name. Not directly, very often. I doubt there's any specific law around Lipitor.…

Why can’t “psychedelics” be the name for the category?

It could be, but once you have any experience with the legal system, you realize that terms are very flexible and explicitly defined.

Maybe not using psychedelics as the legal term is useful strategically.

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#197

Post by mensetmanusman »

scns wrote: post #128
anigbrowl wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then maybe it's the controlled substance administration that's wrong. Seriously, what level of hubris does it take to think that natural substances like psilocybin mushrooms which have existed for millions of years must be brought under the control of a polity's legislature? It's like declaring sharks or snakes illegal because they give some people nightmares. Future generations will laugh in disbelief at this idiocy…

How did drugs become illegal? Check out the documentary series Hooked. Short answer: Racism and corruption. [addendum] Marijuana and Methamphetamine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvGtn8RzF0U&list=PL2-GCln73g... Ecstasy, LSD & the Raves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3id6j6nJmlo&list=PL2-GCln73g... Opium, Morphine and Heroin: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ocqwm

This is true in China as well?

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#198

Post by mensetmanusman »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #177
crazygringo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There absolutely is both for tax purposes as well as for legal religious exemptions. You can't just arbitrarily call your house a church to avoid paying property taxes. Government authorities have to make decisions all the time over what they deem to be a legitimate religious organization. You obviously don't need a license or authorization to engage in otherwise legal religious practice, but as soon as you want lega…

> You obviously don't need a license or authorization to engage in otherwise legal religious practice by this logic, the government could make illegal any other religious practice (in addition to psychedelic usage), because then the practice isn't "otherwise legal"

Welcome to the grey areas of the real world.

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#199

Post by mensetmanusman »

ImAnAmateur wrote: post #4
benbreen wrote: post #2

I'm the author of the OP. Happy to talk more about the history of psychedelics. I also wanted to flag that if anyone is interested in some of the historical sources I cite here (such as the Jesuit talking about ayahuasca in the 18th century) I go into more detail in this journal article, which is open access: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/historical-journal/a...

I've got a question for you. Some people are very carefree with their use of psychoactive drugs. I'd say nearly everyone I've ever seen post online about trying mushrooms, LSD, etc. has done it for fun (or the experience) instead of spiritual, psychological, or medicinal reasons. What risks are they exposing themselves to? I'd hate to have a friend hurt themselves.

You know how the end of every pharma ad lists hundreds of possible side effects? Human biology is too hard to predict and everyone is different.

Some drugs are fine for 99% but there may be a 1% chance of permanent psychosis for some people - with no current way to predict why.

I.e. depending on the drug, the risks can be super high but rare, like BASE jumping.

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#200

Post by mensetmanusman »

bozhark wrote: post #52
s1artibartfast wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot more nuance than even that. Many psychedelics can trigger or exacerbate undesirable mental conditions that persist for the rest of your life.

Nah, they don’t cause undesirable mental conditions that persist for the rest of your life. Your “trip” is about 6-8 hours on a typical 3.5g dose.

That might be your experience, but it negates the experience of the 'non-survivors' so to say.
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