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Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

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171–180 of 209 posts

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#171
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you're dissatisfied with the organically arrived at "folk taxonomic" category: psychedelics . Are you looking for a new classification in law?

In my country, LSD, mescaline, magic mushrooms, and DMT, are class A controlled substances, same as methamphetamine, cocaine, heroin and fentanyl. Class A being drugs that pose a "very high risk of harm". Which, you know, if I could post comments on our legislation, I'd be adding a bunch of "[citation needed]"s in that list of substances that apparently have a very high risk of harm. And like other jurisdictions, the…

Doesn't DMT also naturally exist? So lidke any time you buy a live anim you're buying DMT.

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, LSD, mescaline, magic mushrooms, and DMT, are class A controlled substances, same as methamphetamine, cocaine, heroin and fentanyl. Class A being drugs that pose a "very high risk of harm". Which, you know, if I could post comments on our legislation, I'd be adding a bunch of "[citation needed]"s in that list of substances that apparently have a very high risk of harm. And like other jurisdictions, the…

We had/have case back home in our rather primitive country re this, where former professional athlete started having joint issues in later age. He started growing hemp/weed for his own use, I guess he crossed 0.7% threshold for THC. He made ointments and tinctures for him, and you can't do that with 1 plant, not for serious use during whole year. They caught him, and they are trying him like some mob kingpin, facing…

But yet no name-and-shame for the country?

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#173
post #2

I'm the author of the OP. Happy to talk more about the history of psychedelics. I also wanted to flag that if anyone is interested in some of the historical sources I cite here (such as the Jesuit talking about ayahuasca in the 18th century) I go into more detail in this journal article, which is open access: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/historical-journal/a...

> Happy to talk more about the history of psychedelics.

Do you know anything in the way of a connection between psychedelics and the Eleusinian Mysteries? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusinian_Mysteries

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#174
post #56

Whatever you do please don't advocate to replace ssri with psychedelics. Listen to a doctor or psychiatrist, just like it was for vaccines. And avoid personal anecdote, they have little value compared to what a doctor says. Thanks in advance.

I agree with your main point, but the bit about anecdotes is tricky. We live in a society where research and information on these substances has been suppressed. As a result, anecdotes, to a large degree, are all we have. This is gradually changing as we see new studies emerging with the relaxation of regulation. However, the picture the data paint is still quite limited compared to the wealth of personal experiences…

agreed... I know a lot more folks that SSRIs have messed up in a variety ways than psychedelics... we should offer folks MORE options when fighting depression/anxiety and encourage experimentation

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you trying to say? Who is "someone"? You complain about "this website" while bringing in an irrelevant political argument. Much heat, no light. Who's the problem here?

This user was defending the Capitol insurrection 2 years ago with conspiracy theories. Treat everything they say as extremely untrustworthy.

Setting the discussion of this topic without everyone losing their minds as a goal to be achieved via the intentional use of psychedelics seems like a fun and interesting idea for all the people in this thread who perceive themselves as wanting to "change the world".

Before you can run, you must first learn how to walk.

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#176

There are already tons of legal forms of escapism, which is exactly what psychedelics are, so I fail to see why it's so imperative that they become more socially accepted. I've also tried my fair share of psychedelics and find it completely laughable that people try to raise them up as these spiritual or therapeutic tools. Just because they make you hallucinate does not mean they "open up your mind" or make you think…

It sounds like you've had very boring and uninteresting psychedelic trips. It's kind of laughable to even think that any benefits come from the "hallucinating" aspect of the trip, as you imply.

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#177
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not licensing or authorization for religion. There is no application for approval required to be a “church”, ie: religion. Thinking there could be some “authority” for a religious institution’s practices is beyond measure.

There absolutely is both for tax purposes as well as for legal religious exemptions. You can't just arbitrarily call your house a church to avoid paying property taxes. Government authorities have to make decisions all the time over what they deem to be a legitimate religious organization. You obviously don't need a license or authorization to engage in otherwise legal religious practice, but as soon as you want lega…

> You obviously don't need a license or authorization to engage in otherwise legal religious practice

by this logic, the government could make illegal any other religious practice (in addition to psychedelic usage), because then the practice isn't "otherwise legal"

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#178

There are already tons of legal forms of escapism, which is exactly what psychedelics are, so I fail to see why it's so imperative that they become more socially accepted. I've also tried my fair share of psychedelics and find it completely laughable that people try to raise them up as these spiritual or therapeutic tools. Just because they make you hallucinate does not mean they "open up your mind" or make you think…

The Venn diagram for psychedelics include escapism, but it includes a lot more as well. Psychedelics can be a powerful tool, and for all the good that they can bring you, they can also wreck your shit for a while. It really depends on who you are, what context you take them in and what you do afterwards. This applies more broadly to other substances as well, even ones not typically seen as psychedelic, like alcohol and caffeine. There can be therapeutic effects with those as well.

For example, if you're feeling really stuck at a certain point in life and you take the time to get drunk by yourself and listen to some enjoyable music, you can end up being really honest with yourself and become aware of what you need to do to get unstuck. But you can also get drunk at a party and make a number of bad decisions that you'll regret later. It be like that when it comes to psychedelics as well.

Imho, the main benefits of psychedelics are two-fold.

One has to do with subjective experience - psychedelics can simply provide you with a different experience, a different point of view. This can help you see that there are other possibilities for the narratives you tell yourself and this can be beneficial. Depression is a good example here - it's super easy to forget what it's like to not be depressed and psychedelics can provide a temporary clarity about it that can later help get out of the depressive state.

The temporary difference in point of view can also cultivate more skepticism in general. This is especially true for certain "truths" we hold about ourselves (like insecurities, inadequacies, fears). Psychedelics can open us up to consider different causes for our behaviours and this can be therapeutic as well. But I gotta say, they can also make you lose yourself within a new false narrative, so skepticism is a powerful ally here.

The other benefit simply has to do with neuroplasticity. Most psychedelics open up a dose-dependent learning period that lasts from days to weeks. That's why something like a shroom trip doesn't really end until a few weeks after the shroom is ingested, when that learning period eventually closes. Even if you didn't experience anything spiritually or psychologically significant in the acute phase of the trip, you can still benefit greatly from the learning window that opens up afterwards.

It's a good time to try a new activity, do some self-reflection, change a habit, have a therapy session or two, connect with people on a deeper level. You might be surprised by your learning abilities after a shroom trip. But I gotta say, all this also opens you up to learning "bad things" too, so again, skepticism helps here.

Yeah, you can do all that without psychedelics as well, but there are a couple of problems here - you might be unaware that there's something you can actually do, and even if you are, you might not know what to look at or how to change your point of view about it. Psychedelics can provide a strong emotional and psychological example that can guide you in that process.

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been struggling a lot with dating. Despite being a quite social, and often popular guy to be around, there has been some block/hump that always stood in the way of dating. Funnily enough it struck me some weeks ago that I probably have to go on a psychadelic trip to rewire my brain to be able to show my interest romatically to others. What I'm scared of is the possibility of it having some other undesired effe…

> that I probably have to go on a psychadelic trip to rewire my brain Do you really need the permission of drugs to do what you want? You already have your outcome. You know where you are. To what end do you need the drugs? Let's say you do this trip.. and it turns out the thing blocking you from dating is that you were molested at a young age. Those memories come flooding back to you at 2am while you're sweating lik…

You could just as easily be describing therapy. Of course people sometimes need external help to achieve their goals or change their perspectives! Sometimes it's therapy, sometimes a vacation, sometimes a heart-to-heart with a close friend and sometimes a bunch of acid.

Re: Shifting views about psychedelic drugs require a new category for them

#180

About two months ago I was at a festival with friends and a I had a psychedelic experience. What’s funny is earlier that day I had just told my friends “I know this sounds boring but I don’t like dancing that much.” Then while I was tripping I found that I was really enjoying the dancing. I felt like I was tapping in to a part of myself that had been dormant for a long time. I felt really confident and cool and sexy…

I don't think there's any kind of global anti-drug conspiracy. Anti-drug fear mongering is a byproduct of few factors: ignorance (people confuse crack, LSD and say MDMA, labeling everything as drug), valid fears (LSD was legal while being underresearched and that lead to few terrible events), self-propelled drugwar cycle (drugs caused wave of fear, became a good target for politicians, that caused even more fear mong…

It's not a conspiracy, it's a well-documented effort by the US and other powerful nations to extort every corner of the planet to adopting harsh, unscientific, liberty-obliterating laws against drugs (except the state-sanctioned ones of course!) that has been going on for about a 100 years. Cracks are beginning to show (see Portugal, Uruguay and others), but that is still the global system we live under thanks to various UN conventions pushed by the US and the national-level laws that adhere to those conventions.
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