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Google Sidewiki

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Re: Google Sidewiki

#61

Post by squirtlebonflow »

crazygringo wrote: post #42

I also desperately want something like this to succeed. I want to be able to see others' reactions on all NYTimes articles, for example, not just the handful each day they enable comments on, or the occasional one submitted to HN. And I want it to have all of the standard functionality -- hierarchical comments (like HN and Reddit), upvoting and downvoting, auto-collapsing tangential threads with less votes (like Redd…

Yep, the main problem is that whatever.com could be a completely different page for user A and B, and if they both commented on it, they'd be commenting about different things, then user C goes to view it, and is confused.

Which could be helped by storing the page source or something (which still has a ton of issues associated with it) but then you have a problem of discovery, and how do users tell the pages apart with the same URL? Simple version numbers?

Another problem is you might have 2 URLs that are basically the same page, but with some query parameters that subtlety distinguish them - they are different URLs though. Should there really be two discussion sections for a page that's only differentiated by a referral link or a stylistic preference? Probably not, but there is not an objective metric here we can use to make the call.

What if we use just the base path, e.g. facebook.com? It could be useful for small sides but for large sides you'll run into issues with scoping topics.

it's a really hard problem IMO

Re: Google Sidewiki

#62

Post by Dennip »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #56
alexghr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just raising this since people might not know about it, but this is a Web standard now https://www.w3.org/annotation/ . There are a couple of companies which have created browser plugins for this.

There's also a competing W3C standard named Webmention [1] based on WordPress' pingback/linkback protocols [2] which in turn were based on XML-RPC and exploited for DDoS attacks, like most things WordPress (it's one of the reasons your http access logs are chock full of 404s for xmlrpc.php). AFAICS, pingback remains the most used method though, or the only one that ever went mainstream before web commenting consolida…

Hi, offtopic from the above but, I am trying to use your sgml npm package to parse some OFX files, I wonder if you could give some guidance on a problem i am having? I am trying to move away from a wasm compiled OpenSP.

I'm using am example from your website to try and convert from ofx to xml.

"content must start with document element when document type isn't specified" is the error I get.

Many thanks!!

Re: Google Sidewiki

#63

Post by nologic01 »

Maybe there should be a proper wiki for this. A sort of wikipedia but not for abstract knowledge but for url's (that fit a certain profile: blog posts and the like).

A browser extension could pull the wiki data when visiting a url that has been commented on.

The possibilities for abuse and gaming would be there of-course. As with wikipedia and any multi-user online platforms it would be down to policies, moderator tools and enforcing accountability to try to keep negative patterns spiral out of control.

But fundamentally, once a url is permanent published resource it makes sense to think how we document public reactions to it.

Re: Google Sidewiki

#64

Post by andrepd »

crazygringo wrote: post #42

I also desperately want something like this to succeed. I want to be able to see others' reactions on all NYTimes articles, for example, not just the handful each day they enable comments on, or the occasional one submitted to HN. And I want it to have all of the standard functionality -- hierarchical comments (like HN and Reddit), upvoting and downvoting, auto-collapsing tangential threads with less votes (like Redd…

>And I want it to have all of the standard functionality -- hierarchical comments (like HN and Reddit), upvoting and downvoting, auto-collapsing tangential threads with less votes (like Reddit), giving more weight to users who are consistently upvoted, etc.

This is what I most certainly would not want to see. The prioritisation of "upvoted" content and comments is the number one source of all kinds of perverse problems with modern social media (echo chambers, manipulation, incentivisation of simplistic or short-form content, promoting base anger and outrage, etc)

Re: Google Sidewiki

#65

Post by tannhaeuser »

Dennip wrote: post #62
tannhaeuser wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a competing W3C standard named Webmention [1] based on WordPress' pingback/linkback protocols [2] which in turn were based on XML-RPC and exploited for DDoS attacks, like most things WordPress (it's one of the reasons your http access logs are chock full of 404s for xmlrpc.php). AFAICS, pingback remains the most used method though, or the only one that ever went mainstream before web commenting consolida…

Hi, offtopic from the above but, I am trying to use your sgml npm package to parse some OFX files, I wonder if you could give some guidance on a problem i am having? I am trying to move away from a wasm compiled OpenSP. I'm using am example from your website to try and convert from ofx to xml. "content must start with document element when document type isn't specified" is the error I get. Many thanks!!

Ask on Stack Overflow and include the term "sgml". If you're not on SO, temporarily add a personal mail address to your profile (in the about field) so I can get in touch.

Re: Google Sidewiki

#66

Post by udkl »

albertzeyer wrote: post #45

There are browser extensions like Reddit Check or What Hacker News Says which will show Reddit and/or HN comments on any website you visit. So it's very similar in functionality. Sometimes it can be useful. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/reddit-check/mllce... https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/what-hacker-news-s... There are more variants of these extensions.

See also : https://hypothes.is

A lesser known but great tool

Re: Google Sidewiki

#67

Post by bastawhiz »

crazygringo wrote: post #42

I also desperately want something like this to succeed. I want to be able to see others' reactions on all NYTimes articles, for example, not just the handful each day they enable comments on, or the occasional one submitted to HN. And I want it to have all of the standard functionality -- hierarchical comments (like HN and Reddit), upvoting and downvoting, auto-collapsing tangential threads with less votes (like Redd…

I desperately do not want this to succeed. Who moderates it? No moderation means a fractal of spam, hate, propaganda, and low-value posts. You cannot have a system like this that's resistant to Sybil attacks without centralization or federation (or at least not without forcing users to get into crypto to use it... No thanks).

You either accept that it's centralized, and it becomes siloed (see: reddit, Twitter) or you federate it and it's an echo chamber or nearly empty.

Re: Google Sidewiki

#68

Post by catgirlinspace »

snerbles wrote: post #44
xnx wrote: post #14

I desperately want some annotation service/standard to succeed. The idea goes as at least far back as 1993! ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_annotation ) Discussion is too important to be subject to the editorial whims to the host of the content it is discussing. I'd love to take the insight of the Hacker News community (for example) everywhere I go on the web.

Dissenter was one such service, and it caused enough of a stir that its extension was banned by both Google and Mozilla.

dissenter is made by a far-right social media platform (gab).

Re: Google Sidewiki

#69

Post by Dennip »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #65
Dennip wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, offtopic from the above but, I am trying to use your sgml npm package to parse some OFX files, I wonder if you could give some guidance on a problem i am having? I am trying to move away from a wasm compiled OpenSP. I'm using am example from your website to try and convert from ofx to xml. "content must start with document element when document type isn't specified" is the error I get. Many thanks!!

Ask on Stack Overflow and include the term "sgml". If you're not on SO, temporarily add a personal mail address to your profile (in the about field) so I can get in touch.

Done! https://stackoverflow.com/questions/76600043/how-can-i-use-t...

Re: Google Sidewiki

#70

Post by enobrev »

TillE wrote: post #55
crazygringo wrote: post #42

I also desperately want something like this to succeed. I want to be able to see others' reactions on all NYTimes articles, for example, not just the handful each day they enable comments on, or the occasional one submitted to HN. And I want it to have all of the standard functionality -- hierarchical comments (like HN and Reddit), upvoting and downvoting, auto-collapsing tangential threads with less votes (like Redd…

Funny, I've always hated scrolling down and accidentally seeing comments on news articles, which are almost uniformly garbage. I think it's a terrible way to present any kind of serious story, it makes for a worse experience. If I want to discuss an article, there's Twitter, Reddit, etc. The NYT used to have a good public editor (Margaret Sullivan) you could complain to, but she's long gone. I will say that The Verge…

One of the nice features of Google reader was that you would see discussions of urls by people in your contacts.

A similar filter could be really useful for this sort of discussion plugin.

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