The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans • Hacker News Board

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#41

Post by ix-ix » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 7:07 PM UTC

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #38

aluminum96 wrote: post #32

The plaintiffs should not have had standing. None of the litigant states actually had a direct financial injury; instead, they relied on Missouri's financial interest in MOHELA as the basis for standing. But as Amy Coney Barrett inquired in oral arguments, why didn't MOHELA itself join the lawsuit, if it was really injured? SCOTUS reached the merits because they wanted to make a policy decision. The current court is…

MOHELA is owned and funded by the state of Missouri, any injury to it is an injury to the state. BTW I think current "standing" rules are a travesty and courts should stop dismissing cases on those grounds. It's just a way to weasel out of making certain decisions they don't want to. For example it's pretty clear that someone is harmed by the President giving out $400 million, there's no such thing as free money.

Won't anyone think of the rich?!?!

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#42

Post by enterprise_cog » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 7:08 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #33

enterprise_cog wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cite your sources about all those six figure blue collar jobs.

One google search turned up a bunch[1]. The thing they all have in common? Hard work, and skill. If you're skill-less, you aren't going to earn well, ie. if someone else can be trained to do your job in a day, you are not going to earn well. It's a myth you need a piece of paper to earn well and live well. It needs to die. We puppy-mill thousands of useless graduates each year and then are shocked they earn so little…

Only one of those jobs listed gets six figures and I’ll bet you need a degree or nuke sub background. The only other thing that gets close is police work, a career known for siphoning money from communities by doing bogus OT. Did you even read the link? Nice little ideological rant though, bet that made you feel good.

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#43

Post by ompaLompa » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 7:30 PM UTC

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #38

aluminum96 wrote: post #32

The plaintiffs should not have had standing. None of the litigant states actually had a direct financial injury; instead, they relied on Missouri's financial interest in MOHELA as the basis for standing. But as Amy Coney Barrett inquired in oral arguments, why didn't MOHELA itself join the lawsuit, if it was really injured? SCOTUS reached the merits because they wanted to make a policy decision. The current court is…

MOHELA is owned and funded by the state of Missouri, any injury to it is an injury to the state. BTW I think current "standing" rules are a travesty and courts should stop dismissing cases on those grounds. It's just a way to weasel out of making certain decisions they don't want to. For example it's pretty clear that someone is harmed by the President giving out $400 million, there's no such thing as free money.

*400 Billion

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#44

Post by logankeenan » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #35

logankeenan wrote: post #17

I have mixed feelings about student loan relief. However, I find it super interesting hearing people talk about how terrible high inflation or high interest rates for loans/mortgages are today. All while student loan interest rates have been higher for decades.

Student loan interest rates have to be higher because credit isn't a factor in determining loan eligibility. So it's basically the pooled risk rate where good debtors cover the additional risk of poor debtors.

That makes sense if they behaved like typical loans. However, student loans can’t declare bankruptcy, refinance, etc…

The good debters are not covering the bad debters in this case.

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#45

Post by Alupis » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 8:04 PM UTC

enterprise_cog wrote: post #42

Alupis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One google search turned up a bunch[1]. The thing they all have in common? Hard work, and skill. If you're skill-less, you aren't going to earn well, ie. if someone else can be trained to do your job in a day, you are not going to earn well. It's a myth you need a piece of paper to earn well and live well. It needs to die. We puppy-mill thousands of useless graduates each year and then are shocked they earn so little…

Only one of those jobs listed gets six figures and I’ll bet you need a degree or nuke sub background. The only other thing that gets close is police work, a career known for siphoning money from communities by doing bogus OT. Did you even read the link? Nice little ideological rant though, bet that made you feel good.

How about trying to do some of your own research, before you offer a false condemnation of someone's argument? This isn't reddit...

https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/jobs/working-class-jobs...

It's easy. I clicked the 3rd link on google.

If you live in a world where you believe you must have a piece of paper to earn six figures - then you've been lied to and you've bought into the lie. In other words, you've been made the fool.

There's so much evidence a degree is not necessary to have a very good life with a great income. You just choose to ignore it because it does not fit into whatever false-truth you've chosen to believe.

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#46

Post by enterprise_cog » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 8:27 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #45

enterprise_cog wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only one of those jobs listed gets six figures and I’ll bet you need a degree or nuke sub background. The only other thing that gets close is police work, a career known for siphoning money from communities by doing bogus OT. Did you even read the link? Nice little ideological rant though, bet that made you feel good.

How about trying to do some of your own research, before you offer a false condemnation of someone's argument? This isn't reddit... https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/jobs/working-class-jobs... It's easy. I clicked the 3rd link on google. If you live in a world where you believe you must have a piece of paper to earn six figures - then you've been lied to and you've bought into the lie. In other words, you've been…

How about you come correct with evidence when you make bold statements that are trying to push some ideology you have. This isn’t Reddit.

That link, which is funny because it’s basically blog spam, lists: ATC(school and years of experience required), pilot(school and years of crap pay to break into those numbers), and then lists a bunch of other careers that don’t pay six figures or still require a degree (and you’ll be competing against people who have degrees to get).

Perhaps you are the one who should stop ignoring reality and update your beliefs. Best of luck with that!

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#47

Post by Alupis » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 8:41 PM UTC

enterprise_cog wrote: post #46

Alupis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about trying to do some of your own research, before you offer a false condemnation of someone's argument? This isn't reddit... https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/jobs/working-class-jobs... It's easy. I clicked the 3rd link on google. If you live in a world where you believe you must have a piece of paper to earn six figures - then you've been lied to and you've bought into the lie. In other words, you've been…

How about you come correct with evidence when you make bold statements that are trying to push some ideology you have. This isn’t Reddit. That link, which is funny because it’s basically blog spam, lists: ATC(school and years of experience required), pilot(school and years of crap pay to break into those numbers), and then lists a bunch of other careers that don’t pay six figures or still require a degree (and you’ll…

It's amazing to me how you've put zero effort into your argument, yet remain staggeringly incorrect.

You do not seem to believe hard work and skill development leads to higher pay.

If you flip burgers at In-n-Out, you will not earn much ($15-20 per hour). If you manage an In-n-Out after putting in years of learning the business and working your way up - you earn close to, and more than often exceed, six figures.

Go ahead - look it up. Place some effort into your argument.

The point being - if someone can be trained to replace you in a day or less, you are not worth much.

ATC does not require a degree either [1]. I'm not sure what gave you that idea.

You don't have to believe me - you just have to put effort into your arguments. Careful - it might shatter your perceived reality.

There's no shortcuts in life. Hard work and developed skills earn big bucks no matter the field.

[1] https://www.faa.gov/be-atc#:~:text=Be%20younger%20than%2031%...

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#48

Post by enterprise_cog » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 9:18 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #47

enterprise_cog wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about you come correct with evidence when you make bold statements that are trying to push some ideology you have. This isn’t Reddit. That link, which is funny because it’s basically blog spam, lists: ATC(school and years of experience required), pilot(school and years of crap pay to break into those numbers), and then lists a bunch of other careers that don’t pay six figures or still require a degree (and you’ll…

It's amazing to me how you've put zero effort into your argument, yet remain staggeringly incorrect. You do not seem to believe hard work and skill development leads to higher pay. If you flip burgers at In-n-Out, you will not earn much ($15-20 per hour). If you manage an In-n-Out after putting in years of learning the business and working your way up - you earn close to, and more than often exceed, six figures. Go a…

So your proof of six figure blue collar jobs being abundant is: a fast food chain, that isn’t even a national chain, where you have to work at garbage pay for years to MAYBE get a manager position (for which there are few and I bet they have degrees) where you might possibly get near six figure pay (in what are most likely high COL areas). Are you serious right now?

And the ATC not needing schooling is misleading. You’re only getting accepted via experience if you’ve served in the military as an ATC. Otherwise you need a degree. Go read the BLS overview: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/a...

Also I’ve put effort into my argument, not that it required much. You’ve moved the goalposts from oh so many six figure blue collar jobs to maybe you can be a manager at in and out. Which just confirms the OPs point of a degree being necessary for real social mobility. Unless you think everyone in the country can be an in and out manager.

And finally, hard work doesn’t always earn big bucks. Plenty of people work grueling jobs and get paid crap. The break their bodies for nothing. You are just spouting more ideological garbage.

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#49

Post by sirspacey » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 10:06 PM UTC

denverllc wrote: post #24

I think this is just a terrible situation for everyone involved. When growing up it was hammered into us that you needed to go to university to be able to be successful in the world, and so a lot of people went into university not to get a specific degree or anything but to get that piece of paper. The price was hidden behind the easy availability of student loans and the fact that 18 year-olds don't have the career…

Lots of great points you made here. You might find the book “DIY U” fascinating, which did extensive historical research on these problems:

DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs, and the Coming Transformation of Higher Education

https://www.amazon.com/DIY-Edupunks-Edupreneurs-Transformati...

There’s something obvious going on that is unfortunately opaque to almost everyone making decisions about higher Ed:

The average college student is 26, with kids, a full time job and often a single parent.

Something very different has happened in our society in the last 50 years - it is not possible to get a “live-able wage” for most without a college degree.

Credentialism has seen every profession require a college degree for a job, even when there’s no underlying basis for it.

It’s become a shortcut for limiting the number of candidates a company needs to consider.

So a degree is required to live, a loan is required to get a degree, and the cost of the degree & the loan are rising while wages are net negative.

Student loans were, from the start, designed by corporate financial architects who became the owners of the loans. They made fortunes on the interest payments.

The reason we brokered this deal politically is social progressives wanted education for all and fiscal conservatives wanted recipients to “pay for it”.

It looked like that would work in the 70s, but today both the borrower and the lender are paying more for the loan structure than the goods cost to deliver.

It’s a special kind of insanity in human history - we are the first civilization to intentionally burden our best and brightest at the start of their lives with debt, then servicing the debt to the point the interest will outrun the principal.

Student loan forgiveness is our only way out.

Re: The Supreme Court rejects Biden’s plan to wipe away $400B in student loans

#50

Post by nullocator » Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 11:05 PM UTC

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #38

aluminum96 wrote: post #32

The plaintiffs should not have had standing. None of the litigant states actually had a direct financial injury; instead, they relied on Missouri's financial interest in MOHELA as the basis for standing. But as Amy Coney Barrett inquired in oral arguments, why didn't MOHELA itself join the lawsuit, if it was really injured? SCOTUS reached the merits because they wanted to make a policy decision. The current court is…

MOHELA is owned and funded by the state of Missouri, any injury to it is an injury to the state. BTW I think current "standing" rules are a travesty and courts should stop dismissing cases on those grounds. It's just a way to weasel out of making certain decisions they don't want to. For example it's pretty clear that someone is harmed by the President giving out $400 million, there's no such thing as free money.

MOHELA is a public corporation. https://www.mohela.com/DL/common/publicInfo/financialStateme... and they make their income in large part from the processing of federal student loans. How is that being funded by the state? It seems MOHELA was pretty explicit that they did not wish to be part of the lawsuit and were simply being used as a way to try and gain standing https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/11/02/mohela-s...