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The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

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Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#41

They've already found a solution: If your own citizens refuse to serve the military-industrial complex, then simply use foreigners: Join the military, become a US citizen - https://apnews.com/article/army-air-force-recruiting-shortfa... And the police: Bill to allow noncitizens to become Illinois police officers heads to governor’s desk - https://www.mystateline.com/news/local-news/bill-to-allow-no... In addition to…

If you want to become a US citizen bad enough to serve in the U.S. Military, I welcome you. It is a significant investment in yourself.

Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#42
post #41

They've already found a solution: If your own citizens refuse to serve the military-industrial complex, then simply use foreigners: Join the military, become a US citizen - https://apnews.com/article/army-air-force-recruiting-shortfa... And the police: Bill to allow noncitizens to become Illinois police officers heads to governor’s desk - https://www.mystateline.com/news/local-news/bill-to-allow-no... In addition to…

If you want to become a US citizen bad enough to serve in the U.S. Military, I welcome you. It is a significant investment in yourself.

You don't think Americans losing their participation refusal veto on military action (if they won't do it, the government will hire foreigners for it - whatever "it" may be, foreign invasion or domestic suppression) is dangerous?

The only way I can make sense of your attitude is if you believe wanting to get US citizenship, and being willing to join a military (from their point of view a foreign military) is a sign of virtue, and only good people would do it.

Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#43

A large part of the failure to recruit is a gigantic 500 pound gorilla in the room no one wants to acknowledge: Young Southern White men make up the bread and butter of the military. They have been the target of recruiting campaigns for decades upon decades. This group has collectively checked out of a society that has nothing but contempt for them. When the highest levels of the government and half of the political…

Fuck yeah well said

Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#44

A large part of the failure to recruit is a gigantic 500 pound gorilla in the room no one wants to acknowledge: Young Southern White men make up the bread and butter of the military. They have been the target of recruiting campaigns for decades upon decades. This group has collectively checked out of a society that has nothing but contempt for them. When the highest levels of the government and half of the political…

It's very interesting to read narratives like this online, and how vastly different it is actually talking to people.

Here's the simple reality: the US military is useless to join for young men because they cannot guarantee you a home anymore. You are exchanging your life possibly just to come back with slightly more money. This means even poor young men aren't considering it anymore.

Which were their actual base, poor men who were desperate and had no other option. Exploitation.

Men killing themselves isn't about "open discrimination". If such were true, other groups would have had far greater levels of suicide historically. They're killing themselves because they cannot make a living anymore, and this is due to the perpetuated belief that money is central to your worthiness. Something plenty of groups have been trying to fight against, what do we call those again? Com something...

We can distract ourselves all we want, that it's not how much we've fucked the economy, but rather some randoms online calling people toxic that are the real problem.

Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#45
post #44

A large part of the failure to recruit is a gigantic 500 pound gorilla in the room no one wants to acknowledge: Young Southern White men make up the bread and butter of the military. They have been the target of recruiting campaigns for decades upon decades. This group has collectively checked out of a society that has nothing but contempt for them. When the highest levels of the government and half of the political…

It's very interesting to read narratives like this online, and how vastly different it is actually talking to people. Here's the simple reality: the US military is useless to join for young men because they cannot guarantee you a home anymore. You are exchanging your life possibly just to come back with slightly more money. This means even poor young men aren't considering it anymore. Which were their actual base, po…

> They're killing themselves because they cannot make a living anymore, and this is due to the perpetuated belief that money is central to your worthiness. Something plenty of groups have been trying to fight against, what do we call those again? Com something...

It's nice to talk about those groups in the abstract, but when you look at them more specifically... well, let's ignore their historical record, and focus on the ones in the US. Their central tenet seems to be that white men (and women, when they dare object) are the source of all evil in the US, are solely and inherently racist, and must repent and atone for their current and historical sins for the foreseeable future.

Give up your borders, your identity, your remaining political power, and maybe, if you grovel hard enough, the new benevolent authorities will throw you a few scraps, after they're done redressing your historic wrongs.

You can maybe see why that's not a tempting offer. Learning from history, Ukraine once "accepted" such an offer - gave up their national identity and political power, to join the Soviet Union and its utopian classless society. They were repaid with Russification and the Holodomor. I'm sure they had people admonishing fellow Ukrainians for "acting against their self-interest" by clinging to their nationality then, too.

Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my kids wanted to join the military, I would support them. Especially the Navy; while one can (and does) say that the American military is the strongest military of all times, in terms of greatness in battle, the Army does not have a lot to show (no American general cracks the top 10). The Navy can boast Midway. And can be proud with Nimitz, probably the greatest admiral ever, Nelson included. So, why would I disc…

The US basically didn't have a military until WW1 and it did just fine. It's surrounded on two sides by ocean, and its neighbors are very friendly.

> The US basically didn't have a military until WW1

The secesion war was fought by actors. /s

Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#47
post #7

Escape hatch-ed into the the military for the 2000s financial crisis, became a Navy Nuke and was one when those commands didn't have the lowest morale out of all the military (though we were competing against Drone Pilots who hit rock bottom enough to boo their commanding officer off stage). The military is a fucked up place with utter bullshit like the CO using a suicide victim's "voice" to say we should work harder…

Ohh. Sad to hear Navy Nuke is anything other than perfect. I had a great time in the Marines. I knew the GI Bill promises were BS and the training I got would not be applicable to the real world (honestly, how often do you call in fire from naval artillery in your corporate software development job.)

I joined explicitly to play GI Joe for a couple years and explicitly chose a job that had me frequently out of sight of my chain of command.

And I knew from family members the tradeoffs involved with making it a career.

The military always had s** jobs, but if you played your cards right you could avoid them mostly. Sounds like it's harder to avoid the crap these days.

Should mention I was in from 85-90 w/ a couple years of reserves. Ymmv.

Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#48
post #7

Escape hatch-ed into the the military for the 2000s financial crisis, became a Navy Nuke and was one when those commands didn't have the lowest morale out of all the military (though we were competing against Drone Pilots who hit rock bottom enough to boo their commanding officer off stage). The military is a fucked up place with utter bullshit like the CO using a suicide victim's "voice" to say we should work harder…

Ohh. Sad to hear Navy Nuke is anything other than perfect. I had a great time in the Marines. I knew the GI Bill promises were BS and the training I got would not be applicable to the real world (honestly, how often do you call in fire from naval artillery in your corporate software development job.) I joined explicitly to play GI Joe for a couple years and explicitly chose a job that had me frequently out of sight o…

I dont think anything you've said is wrong or isn't still a thing. But the problem is there are new problems in addition to what you described.

Nukes are a good example of how the military simply does not care, is not allowed to care. The Congress will not resource problem sets. But they will increase requirements against those problems. And the military can only use coercive tactics against the individuals in the jobs. So the job is getting harder, the commanders getting meaner, and all the while your pay is inflating away as you watch (dod) civilians play on greener grass.

No joke, a certain combatant command will pay civilians >200% of an servicemember's total military compensation for the exact same workrole. When SMs bring it up, like with the posted job offer as they ETS, the command accuses them of being mercenaries who chase money and don't believe in America or the mission. It's the same mission for the same employer.

Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#49
post #39

Disappointingly little discussion in the article about the moral and ethical problems associated with the US military. If military service were simply about "defending freedom", I suspect there would not be a recruiting problem. While it feels to me like US military service may exist for the purpose of "defending freedom", it's mostly utilized for defending and promoting the interests of the wealthy. As others have m…

This is a common anti-establishment trope but it clearly lacks cognizance into the recent military past. The us military is more clear-eyed in it's role than some like the Korean war. It was a better argument when the us was in iraq. Morale and senselessness were worse in the 90s/80s and the 70s the military was absolutely reeling from Vietnam & counter-culture.

Re: The Military Recruiting Crisis: Even Veterans Don’t Want Their Children to Join

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes. The US military used to have a defensive function toward western people, culture, morals and values. Not any longer, which is one of the reasons why today there are many things which I am not free to criticise or satirise, and have to use anonymous public forums.

> I am not free to criticise or satirise

What are you talking about? Is this some sort of metaphor? Will anyone arrest you if you criticize of satirize? Where's that? In the western world?

I'm aware that in Germany you can get in prison if you are a Holocaust denier. In a few other countries too. The US does not have a lot of patience with Holocaust deniers. You will not get in legal trouble in the US, because of the freedom of speech. But the US will not move a finger if a country in its sphere of influence passes a law making Holocaust denying a crime.

But other than that, what type of criticism or satire can get you arrested?

Maybe your fear is of being "cancelled". But this is a cultural thing, not a legal thing. What exactly would you like the US to do?

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