Give it five minutes • Hacker News Board

Re: Give it five minutes

#11

Post by analyst74 » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:14 PM UTC

I come from the opposite direction, where I was thinking too much. In the sense that I am quiet in most conversations, because I need to think about what to say back, and most conversations flow quite quickly, and I end up with a response well past the point it's applicable.

This is bad for two reasons: 1, if you don't say anything, the default assumption is you don't know anything, unless you have well known achievement in the field. Now your peers will eventually learn what you know, maybe even more than they do, but it takes time, and modern life is fast;

2, you don't have to be wise/correct/knowledgeable in all conversations, especially casual ones where people are just shooting the stars and will forget what was talked the next day.

The real tricky thing, the thing that distinguishes a wise man, is to know when to speak like a fool, and when to dive into deep thinking, and when to shut up.

Re: Give it five minutes

#12

Post by zotz » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:20 PM UTC

rumblestrut wrote: post #4

I have found this approach to be quite useful with my co-workers, friends and even my spouse. Sometimes I hear an idea and my initial reaction is "No," when what is really going on inside me is "Let me mull it over." The trick for me is to not open my mouth too soon before I've truly given the idea a chance to breathe a little.

> The trick for me is to not open my mouth too soon before I've truly given the idea a chance to breathe a little.

Silence is the ultimate wisdom. I just proved I'm a fool by even mentioning it.

Re: Give it five minutes

#13

Post by aspir » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:26 PM UTC

drats wrote: post #10

Six days ago, during the last HN cycle of 37signals blog/marketing, I said that I thought they were desperate to prove that their path was so awesome because there was tension about not getting acquired and not really working on anything world-changing ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3629729 ). I think this post of introspection from 37S supports my point. It confirms that all the other 37 Signals stuff was par…

I think you're looking at the world through rose-colored glasses. Sure this blog is marketing. All blogs serve at least a partial marketing purpose, whether they be from individual software developers, small businesses, big companies, or nonprofits. The difference is that "good blogs" are ones where I can extract value from the post. Signal vs Noise is one of these blogs.

I don't understand your complaint at it's core. Are you upset that multimillionaires are sharing their key decision points, advice, and retrospectives in exchange for promotion? Most people charge for such disclosure, and highly so[0]. We're lucky that the culture and technology of the web has torn down this glass ceiling access to insight.

Just look at the forum we're discussing this in -- new.ycombinator.com -- if you're anti marketing, you may not want to raise issue within a forum owned and run by an extremely active investment fund

[0]http://www.kepplerspeakers.com/search/?feerange=ABOVE%20$50,...

Re: Give it five minutes

#14

Post by sray » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:30 PM UTC

This reminds me of And the Rock Cried Out, a short story by Ray Bradbury. The story revolves around two American tourists who are in South America when the US and much of Europe is wiped out by nuclear attacks during the Cold War. With the US in rubble, everyone is out to get the tourists as payback for all of the terrible things America has done in the past.

Anyway, they eventually meet a man named Garcia who offers them help. They're shocked, since everyone else wants them dead. Garcia explains:

Do you read the papers? Of course, you do. But do you read them as I read them? I rather doubt that you have come upon my system. No, it was not exactly myself that came upon it; the system was forced upon me. But now I know what a clever thing it has turned out to be. I always get the newspapers a week late, from the Capital. And this circumstance makes for a man being a clear-thinking man. You are very careful with your thinking when you pick up a week-old paper.

That always stuck with me for some reason.

Re: Give it five minutes

#15

Post by drats » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:31 PM UTC

aspir wrote: post #13

drats wrote: post #10

Six days ago, during the last HN cycle of 37signals blog/marketing, I said that I thought they were desperate to prove that their path was so awesome because there was tension about not getting acquired and not really working on anything world-changing ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3629729 ). I think this post of introspection from 37S supports my point. It confirms that all the other 37 Signals stuff was par…

I think you're looking at the world through rose-colored glasses. Sure this blog is marketing. All blogs serve at least a partial marketing purpose, whether they be from individual software developers, small businesses, big companies, or nonprofits. The difference is that "good blogs" are ones where I can extract value from the post. Signal vs Noise is one of these blogs. I don't understand your complaint at it's cor…

But they don't share anything of worth to my mind. I like most HN links that make the front page but I've yet to find a 37 Signals post that's really anything but smoke and mirrors designed to indirectly praise themselves. Someone made that same smoke and mirrors criticism of PG's essays a while back and I think that's false, he puts work into his "blog" and it's interesting. More than that he gets other people to read it and give feedback before he publishes. The quality of the 37 Signals stuff is just incredibly low and it only makes the font page for "hip" reasons.

Re: Give it five minutes

#16

Post by pazimzadeh » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:34 PM UTC

There is a French expression for this: "Tourner sept fois sa langue dans sa bouche" or "Turn your tongue in your mouth seven times before speaking."

http://french.about.com/od/vocabulary/a/7foissalangue.htm

Re: Give it five minutes

#17

Post by youlost_thegame » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:35 PM UTC

Oh man, I'm like having a dejà vu.

This realization occured to me about a year ago, and when it came to me, everything was so clear. I had been an asshole in too many meetings because of wanting to speak first. My manager, on the other hand, was a very quiet, enigmatic guy, and he seemed wise.

While the engineers discussed some ideas, he listened. By listening, he was able to detect who was full of B.S. and who was has the best ideas. In the end, when he finally broke his silence, he was usually right.

Silence is very, very powerful, and it's never too late to learn to shut up

Re: Give it five minutes

#18

Post by kstenerud » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:37 PM UTC

zotz wrote: post #12

rumblestrut wrote: post #4

I have found this approach to be quite useful with my co-workers, friends and even my spouse. Sometimes I hear an idea and my initial reaction is "No," when what is really going on inside me is "Let me mull it over." The trick for me is to not open my mouth too soon before I've truly given the idea a chance to breathe a little.

> The trick for me is to not open my mouth too soon before I've truly given the idea a chance to breathe a little. Silence is the ultimate wisdom. I just proved I'm a fool by even mentioning it.

"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses" - Boethius

(If you had kept your silence, you would have stayed a philosopher)

Re: Give it five minutes

#19

Post by kstenerud » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:40 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #11

I come from the opposite direction, where I was thinking too much. In the sense that I am quiet in most conversations, because I need to think about what to say back, and most conversations flow quite quickly, and I end up with a response well past the point it's applicable. This is bad for two reasons: 1, if you don't say anything, the default assumption is you don't know anything, unless you have well known achieve…

Thus far I've found that life is never too fast for silence, but often mistaken to be too fast for patience.

Every worthwhile thing requires a substantial time investment.

Re: Give it five minutes

#20

Post by tchock23 » Thu, Mar 01, 2012, 7:42 PM UTC

rumblestrut wrote: post #4

I have found this approach to be quite useful with my co-workers, friends and even my spouse. Sometimes I hear an idea and my initial reaction is "No," when what is really going on inside me is "Let me mull it over." The trick for me is to not open my mouth too soon before I've truly given the idea a chance to breathe a little.

I have to remember this with co-workers as well, but from the opposite perspective. It's a variation of the idea that "the confused mind always says no." I've learned that when people take the time to process the idea they will be able to give a more reasonable response, so I'm now more patient with the initial "no" response.

In fact, I have one colleague who immediately says "no" to every one of my ideas before almost exactly one month later saying yes emphatically (and then going on to claim it as his own idea all along). It's uncanny - I have worked with him so long now that I can almost time it to the day when he will agree with my idea and claim it as his own idea all along. It used to really bother me, but not anymore - as long we get things done I don't care who "owns" the idea.