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Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

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Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#201
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

haha :) didnt realize this came off so poorly

I didn't read your post as arrogant. You said that, when sober, you tend towards being analytical, technical, and logical. This is your natural tendency in addition to the inertial effect of technical work which you spend most of your time on. To me this all seems like neutral observation.

[deleted]

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#202

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

That's one important reason, but there's another one that is even more neglected: it just... tastes good (for those of us who like it, of course). For example, as a 90 kg man, for me drinking a single 33cl bottle of beer has pretty much the same effect as drinking water, i.e., I don't feel anything at all (note that I don't drive, in that context it would probably still be relevant). So when I have a single beer with…

Increasingly, there are! Where I live (Switzerland) there is a roaring trade in non alcoholic or very low alcohol drinks. I admit none are yet as tasty to me as a good IPA, but the market clearly wants what you do. If my beer of choice was more toward lager I might even be happier.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live isnt very painful for me. Still enjoy a beer a bit too much. When I'm super happy and then have a beer it just adds to it. It also can help me relax if I'm working to much. One can argue it's not needed, but at times nice.

I'm pretty sure Tolstoy isn't talking about a weekly beer, but the Russian type of alcoholism of downing an entire bottle of vodka every five minutes. See the wiki: > According to a 2011 report by the World Health Organization, annual per capita consumption of alcohol in Russia was about 15.76 litres of pure alcohol, the fourth-highest volume in Europe. > Alcoholism has been a problem throughout the country's history…

A great point, and I assume this sort of thing might help understand how prohibition came to America in the early 20th century. I heard a world health report once that implied that Russian men die a lot younger than they would without alcohol.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one important reason, but there's another one that is even more neglected: it just... tastes good (for those of us who like it, of course). For example, as a 90 kg man, for me drinking a single 33cl bottle of beer has pretty much the same effect as drinking water, i.e., I don't feel anything at all (note that I don't drive, in that context it would probably still be relevant). So when I have a single beer with…

Alcohol by itself is tasteless though. And alcohol-free beer is getting better at very high speed. Keep trying it every now and then, you'll be surprised.

> Alcohol by itself is tasteless though.

There seems to be disagreement over this.

To me, alcoholic beverages have a distinctive taste in common (stronger in spirits and weaker in beer or wine), which I always assumed was the taste of the alcohol itself.

Some sources describe pure ethanol as 'tasteless', albeit strongly odoured; if this is true, then I guess what I interpret as a taste is really the combination of the smell & the burning sensation.

But other sources describe it as having a taste -- e.g. CAMEO Chemicals (via PubChem) says ethanol has a 'pungent taste', and a paper I find when googling says 10% ethanol tastes bitter to everyone and sweet to some (and I know that's not exactly alcohol 'by itself' but they do attribute the taste to the ethanol).

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#206

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

> It's a drug that makes it easier to socialize

But is unconscious socialization the same as conscious socialization? IMO all socialization is not equal. If you're "engaging" with people who are intoxicated themselves, while you are intoxicated, does that truly yield the same benefits as a genuine, no-barrier interaction? In my experience, no.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#207

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

People are far more social in middle eastern countries where alcohol is banned.

Good point - why is that? How do they acheive it and what are the tradeoffs? An American example that comes to mind is the Mormons. Are they playing a lot of Mafia in the middle east? Hookah bars? Mosques?

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#208
post #137
post #9

Drinking slows down my brain and reduces the number of threads running in parallel. Sometimes very useful to enable normal-passing interaction in social environments. Or just to be able to focus. Lots of people with ADHD drink to achieve a more single threaded experience. Edit to add: I don't meant to encourage drinking as a tool for managing ADHD. It works but it's a blunt and dangerous tool. If you're at that point…

Drinking drowns creativity. I can do many many things almost properly while drunk, but one thing I can't do is write anything good. It's possible that's what we're after when we drink: stop the flow of ideas. That's one meaning of "stupefy".

Are you sure?

>Alcohol has played a central role in the creative lives of some of the most famous authors of the last few centuries. Lewis Hyde notes in his essay Alcohol and Poetry that four of the six Americans who have won the Nobel Prize for Literature were alcoholics, namely William Faulkner, Eugene O'Neill, Ernest Hemingway and John Steinbeck.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/booze-as-muse-write...

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#209

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

> It's a drug that makes it easier to socialize But is unconscious socialization the same as conscious socialization? IMO all socialization is not equal. If you're "engaging" with people who are intoxicated themselves, while you are intoxicated, does that truly yield the same benefits as a genuine, no-barrier interaction? In my experience, no.

That’s the wrong dichotomy. The options for some people are socializing while tipsy vs. not socializing or connecting openly at all.

No one is “unconscious” after one or two glasses of wine lol

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are far more social in middle eastern countries where alcohol is banned.

Good point - why is that? How do they acheive it and what are the tradeoffs? An American example that comes to mind is the Mormons. Are they playing a lot of Mafia in the middle east? Hookah bars? Mosques?

The answer is the focus on community. Alcohol brings people together physically, only to isolate them mentally. Alcohol has individual short-term "benefits", for some, but detrimental effects on communities.
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