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Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

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Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#141

Post by Simon_O_Rourke »

meitham wrote: post #120
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

People are far more social in middle eastern countries where alcohol is banned.

I'm pretty sure, from an extended stint working out there, that folks in Saudi Arabia aren't exactly all social mix n'mingle types.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#142

Post by keiferski »

Tolstoy was an aristocrat and most people commenting here are functionally in the same position; that is, largely able to choose which substances they consume - or choose not to consume them at all.

This is not the case for the vast majority of alcohol use throughout history. Historically, for lower class professions like farmers or factory workers, drinking was just something you did. It was something your father did, and his father did, etc. It was an inherited cultural trait, not a decision that an individual ruminated over.

Adding to that were exploitative practices against these workers by the providers of alcohol, in a way not dissimilar to the recent opioid crisis.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#143

Post by runeks »

sibeliuss wrote: post #126
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

I was as social as one could be while drunk and am as solitary as a hermit now that I'm sober. I miss the social life at times, but really, as Tolstoy remarks, it was just an escape from my true nature which I hadn't yet figured out. And what a mess that was. So yes, its a social thing, but is it good? It's something. There are other ways.

> I was as social as one could be while drunk and am as solitary as a hermit now that I'm sober.

Being drunk and consuming alcohol is not the same thing. I like to drink a couple of beers but not more than that.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#144

Post by BTinfinity »

jasfi wrote: post #127
fferen wrote: post #118

Everyone warns you about alcohol, but I have only had positive experiences, and in fact, wish I started drinking sooner in life. When I was going through a period of general anxiety and loneliness, I used to drink alone every weekend. It was a lot of fun and led to some of my best decisions, such as applying for a new job. Nowadays, I'm in a more stable place and only drink socially. I feel like my mind is by default…

They're not trying to ruin your fun. Alcohol increases the risk of cancer: https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/alcohol/

So does the sun: https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/skin/basic_info/sun-safety.htm

But the sun, like alcohol, isn't so bad in moderation

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#145

Post by Hermitian909 »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #83
_yb2s wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol and other drugs feel good and allow you to have a good time by allowing you to escape negative emotional experiences and just enjoy the moment: fear, social anxiety, trauma. Without those negative feelings, you would already feel good, and the alcohol would lose it's appeal.

You're confusing "drinking as a coping mechanism" and "drinking for recreation". You know what rich college students don't have a lot of? "fear, social anxiety, and trauma". Know what they do a lot of? booze, sex, and drugs. You show me the most content, meditation-and-philosophizing-on-a-Friday-night person, and I'll show you someone who could be having an even better time on MDMA. Booze, sex, and drugs are just lif…

> who could be having an even better time on MDMA

A higher peak perhaps - but you can't be on MDMA 100% of the time, and taking MDMA effects that other time. Whether taking MDMA works out over the entirety of your life is a personal question - many find the high not worth it.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#146

Post by q7xvh97o2pDhNrh »

anthomtb wrote: post #80
nostromo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer my husband's company when he's a bit tired because when he's well rested he can be "too much" -- his energy level, his anxiousness, his sense of humor, are all amplified, sometimes to an annoying degree. I've noticed this with other guys that just need to chill out a bit when socializing -- especially tech folks. It's more about energy level than smartness. No need to be hungover -- maybe just relax a bit, t…

> maybe just relax a bit, take things slower I agree with what you are saying about energy levels but take issue with these suggestions. How does an inherently anxious and energetic person "just relax" and "take things slowly"? I mean, the phrase "just relax" generates (for a younger version of me) a thought bubble that would read: I thought I was relaxed!! > talk less, go on fewer (or no) tangents What's worse, some…

> How does an inherently anxious and energetic person "just relax" and "take things slowly"?

I've been thinking about this too.

My plan is to just sit down and really put the hours in — work hard, and really grind through all those meditation apps and podcasts and books.

And I think, if I just grit my teeth and keep at it, nonstop, then eventually I'll master the secret to relaxing and taking things slowly.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#147

Post by ajuc »

keiferski wrote: post #142

Tolstoy was an aristocrat and most people commenting here are functionally in the same position; that is, largely able to choose which substances they consume - or choose not to consume them at all. This is not the case for the vast majority of alcohol use throughout history. Historically, for lower class professions like farmers or factory workers, drinking was just something you did. It was something your father di…

Peasants in Russia (and in Poland-Lithuania before it got conquered) were effectively slaves. They had to do free work, couldn't leave without permission of the landlord. Landlords were also acting as judges.

Landlords had monopoly on producing and selling alcohol, and they extracted as much additional income from that as they could. Which meant each of them had an inn which he rented out to someone. The inn was buying landlord's alcohol and encouraging or forcing peasants to buy it.

It was a common trick to have "all you can drink" passes for farmers. There were even attempts to force peasants to buy if they didn't wanted to - by introducing quotas and they had to pay for the whole amount even if they drank less.

When it comes to Slavic countries before 20th century - think American South before civil war, just both slaves and slave owners are white.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#148

Post by tokamak-teapot »

cbau wrote: post #119
kjs3 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rings true. I went to a reasonably well known engineering school, so...some selection for ADHD folks. As someone diagnosed with ADHD young, it was frightening to see how many of my fellows were 1) clearly struggling with ADHD, and 2) were destructively self-medicating with alcohol (or worse). And it hasn't stopped. Decades later there's still those folks who are hammered at every social function and a good perce…

> This rings true. I went to a reasonably well known engineering school, so...some selection for ADHD folks. Can you expand on this. Do you think think engineering schools select for ADHD? Just curious, haven't heard this before.

The hyperfocus which is a symptom of ADHD helps give the tenacity needed to make progress when faced with frustrating challenges.

In engineering, tenacity is absolutely required to make any progress at all, but there are also seemingly infinite threads to pull on.

If you’re in hyperfocus mode and you’re working on something, you don’t run out of interesting side tracks or ways to keep digging down through the foundations under what you’re working on.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#149

Post by Thlom »

cbau wrote: post #119
kjs3 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rings true. I went to a reasonably well known engineering school, so...some selection for ADHD folks. As someone diagnosed with ADHD young, it was frightening to see how many of my fellows were 1) clearly struggling with ADHD, and 2) were destructively self-medicating with alcohol (or worse). And it hasn't stopped. Decades later there's still those folks who are hammered at every social function and a good perce…

> This rings true. I went to a reasonably well known engineering school, so...some selection for ADHD folks. Can you expand on this. Do you think think engineering schools select for ADHD? Just curious, haven't heard this before.

I think he means the other way around. Engineering fits for many neuro-divergent people. Especially ADHD and some types of autism.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#150

Post by jasfi »

BTinfinity wrote: post #144
jasfi wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not trying to ruin your fun. Alcohol increases the risk of cancer: https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/alcohol/

So does the sun: https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/skin/basic_info/sun-safety.htm But the sun, like alcohol, isn't so bad in moderation

I know the sun can increase skin cancer risk, that's why people take precautions.

The risks of alcohol are quite well known (e.g. what drinking & driving often does). It's also addictive, which means some people really struggle to stop or can't. It's not harmless at all.

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