Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

wbtv.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 302 posts

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#271

Post by nunuvit »

nkozyra wrote: post #256
nunuvit wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there are at least a few camera placements that would be worthwhile. To answer your earlier question, not to split hairs, but I disagree with "always". You can inadvertently increase risk when trying to reduce it, or unwittingly prioritize things that offer less bang for your buck. That's why risk analysis is important.

I don't disagree that adding data can increase risk. I'm just not seeing the argument against exterior cameras.

I think it's probably just considered not worthwhile enough at the moment. We'll probably get them one day. Rockets have cameras, after all.

I want to be clear I'm agreeing with you that some cameras would be useful in general. I think my only disagreements are that eyeballs are fine for this scenario, and that "more" isn't always meaningfully useful or necessarily better.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#272

Post by chasd00 »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #115
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand "don't take any bags as we deplane down the emergency slide", but the hold is weird. I'd probably get arrested in the process of being like "No the bag with my important possessions I keep next to me on purpose is coming with me" They were probably rushed off due to being unsure about fire hazards, and people digging through carryons for wallets and stuff would probably slow that down a lot, considering…

The right time to grab wallet was after the pilot explained the issue and next steps.

As soon as they said something was wrong I’d be working to get any important work off my laptop and onto my phone or any other alternative storage I could think of. Also, wallet/passport/keys etc come out of my backpack and into my pockets.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#273

Post by sacnoradhq »

I wonder if it recently ran over a wheel chock, deforming the NLG spray deflector causing the nose wheel to refuse to deploy. A similar incident happened in 2001. https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20010809-...

NTSB report (pdf): https://reports.aviation-safety.net/2001/20010809-0_B712_N24...

Current incident: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/316147

This plane's deets:

Boeing 717-2BD (derived from MD-80)

model year 2000

ser 55017

reg N955AT

leaser Wells Fargo

As an immediate stop gap, I think the FAA should issue an AD for the 717/MD-80 family that should rough front gear noises, underpowered response, or rolling sluggishness occur, ground crews should inspect the nose gear's NLG spray deflector for damage prior to any takeoff. For anyone unfamiliar, the deflector is thing that trails behind the nose wheel that limits FOD and water ingestion into MD-80's tail-mounted engines. Wing-mounted engines generally don't have this problem unless they're located near wing roots.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#274

Post by xwdv »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #213
xwdv wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys have wallets? Seems like the only possession you’d really need to do anything useful is your phone.

Yes, I have a driver's license and bank card. Do you not have ANY form of identification? How do you do things that require it?

Most of the time I don’t carry any ID. My drivers license stays in the car where it belongs. I don’t buy packs of cigarettes or alcohol. It’s fine.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#275

Post by numpad0 »

belval wrote: post #227
graypegg wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume a low-margin high-risk industry implements “stupid policies” just to bother you and steal your laptop? The goal during an evacuation is to get every one off in 90seconds or less, since it’s possible there’s a fire, which has the potential to become extremely dangerous very quickly. Consider how long it takes to board a plane with luggage. We’re all really quick to assume this is simply bureaucrats i…

I feel like you are taking the worst possible interpretation of the parent comment. No the airline/FAA won't steal your stuff, that's not the concern. The problem is whatever you leave on the plane will remain there until the end of the investigation, which means that you can basically write all of it off for a month. Have the rule say that the airline will be on the hook to return all belongings within 48 hours and…

And it’s not always just laptops. It can be ID documents. Picture a college student on a trip. Maybe with couple friends. Involved in an accident, but off to the lawn safely, following all instructions.

Now their driver’s licenses and their credit cards are all in handbags around seat 34A/B. They won’t be able to rent a car, make calls, or even prove their lawful entry to the soil they’re on.

I almost always have my wallet and a phone in trousers and/or jacket pockets anyway, so this is likely never be a problem for me, but not everyone even has a pocket on their clothings.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#276

Post by nrb »

getoj wrote: post #218
ethanbond wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a general heuristic, I’ve found that people who create policies in a specialized field of expertise tend to think through those policies a whole lot more than internet commentators like myself do. Especially when those policies will obviously piss off a bunch of people, I can either assume those people who spend decades thinking about X don’t know what they’re doing, or I can say “hey, I probably know way less tha…

It’s worth remembering that there is often a conflict of interest between the system and the individual. An example where I’m from is train station escalators. There is an unwritten social rule that you stand on the left, and let anyone who is in a hurry walk down on the right. This benefits the individuals because if you’re in a hurry you can get through faster, and if you’re not you don’t care. But the rail company…

> These announcements are largely ignored. No individual cares about clearing the platform, even though it is the best thing for the rail network as a whole (crowded platforms cause delays).

It could be that people ignore it because the rail network is asking you to break the social contract at no benefit to you whatsoever, only an increased risk of a negative encounter (at best getting cursed out and at worst how long until someone gets shoved for blocking the walking half?)

The real win here would be for everyone who is able, to walk down the damn escalator.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#278

Post by bscphil »

numpad0 wrote: post #275
belval wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you are taking the worst possible interpretation of the parent comment. No the airline/FAA won't steal your stuff, that's not the concern. The problem is whatever you leave on the plane will remain there until the end of the investigation, which means that you can basically write all of it off for a month. Have the rule say that the airline will be on the hook to return all belongings within 48 hours and…

And it’s not always just laptops. It can be ID documents. Picture a college student on a trip. Maybe with couple friends. Involved in an accident, but off to the lawn safely, following all instructions. Now their driver’s licenses and their credit cards are all in handbags around seat 34A/B. They won’t be able to rent a car, make calls, or even prove their lawful entry to the soil they’re on. I almost always have my…

Or if you and your partner are traveling together, you might lose your only set of house keys that way. I can't imagine getting home after a traumatic experience only to have to effectively break into your own house and then have new keys made or the locks rekeyed because you can't wait for the FAA to give you the backpack the keys were in.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#279

Post by tzs »

sokoloff wrote: post #55
DonHopkins wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing that might not be obvious to non-residents is that K is for West of the Mississippi, and W is for East. It must be weird to live near the Mississippi and get a mix of K and W station call signs!

I knew this was the general rule, but also knew about KDKA-Pittsburgh (a very old station, east of the Mississippi). In looking into why that one got a K, I found this that might be interesting to people reading this far down this subthread: https://archive.is/HpUc3

For a W west of the Mississippi a good example is WACO in Waco, Texas, which is also one of only 3 stations whose callsign is the name of their city. (The other two are WARE in Ware, Massachusetts, and WISE in Wise, Virginia).

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#280

Post by Dylan16807 »

vba616 wrote: post #267
Dylan16807 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's another thing to claim that the idiots are doing the math. Did someone say that? If someone keeps a bag because they don't trust the airline, that's an emotional decision, not a math one.

Ok. I'm maybe not following your point. Do you think the FAA's policy is a problem?

I do. For three reasons:

1. If people are worried nobody will get their bags for a long time, they'll be less likely to follow safety protocols and leave them behind.

2. It's bad to take people's things away for a long time.

3. Even if you assume people will obey, it can cause more harm than good in non-dire situations.

None of those reasons require the passengers to be notably logical.

And I have no idea what correlation you're talking about.

Post reply on HN