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Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

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Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#201

Wow! Phenomenal piloting skills. In the 2nd video on the page taken by a passenger during landing, you can hear the plane balanced on the rear wheels for 12 seconds before touching down the nose. Impressive!

Here's a Vulcan landing with unsafe nose gear; hold back on the stick to keep the nose up (but not so long it comes down with a bump).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxshOMFTZdM

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#202
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely an unfortunate policy but isn’t it possible (at least in some cases) that doing so would taint the evidence of a problem that put hundreds of people at risk?

Uh, no. My medications in my carry-on, without which I will have serious cardiac issues, are not related to the problem or "evidence". Agree it is a stupid policy. As long as there is no fire, at least let people grab their carry-ons.

That’s a good point! I’d be genuinely shocked if the policy didn’t account for a way to solve that.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#203
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you can see a YT Shorts that a passenger inside the flight shot, it's actually much less stressful than I imagined: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/W12w7NkqGCM

you can right click a shorts video, copy the URL, and paste that to get the normal non-crippled YouTube player https://youtu.be/W12w7NkqGCM

You can also change /shorts/ to /v/ in the URL

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#204
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/@REALATCchannel/videos made me realize just how many incidents happen and are resolved without issue.

Aviation is not safe because of luck or because aerospace engineers build infallible machines. Aviation is safe because of a culture of safety that puts the right procedures in place to mitigate problems that will eventually happen.

And when you say "Aviation is safe" you mean specifically Scheduled Aviation ie people buy tickets and go on a plane with some guys they've never met flying it. Scheduled Aviation is remarkably safe.

GA (General aviation, people who own a little plane and maybe just fly it for fun, or it's a professional expense for say a plastic surgeon and allows them to fly 300 miles home on Thursday evening after working four days in the big city) is not safe. A few hundred of these people die, not just smash up their planes or get hurt, but die, sometimes with family or friends aboard, every year. It might make the local TV news, at most. Unless they were a celebrity it won't make national news.

Commercial is more complicated because there are so many possibilities. Cargo is pretty safe, if your job is to move boxes of stuff from one big jet airport to another in a civilized country you'll likely die in bed of old age. But if you fly a police helicopter, or medevac, or you're a crop duster, or you fly custom pick up jobs, when the client wants and where they want - those jobs can go badly wrong much too easily, without you really understanding what you've got yourself into until it's too late. These people are (or at least should be) better trained than in GA, but they're also often flying more demanding missions. You may operate out of somewhere with not-so-great capabilities, on short notice, in poor weather and/or at night, and you may be expected to go places that you ordinarily wouldn't, close to buildings, close to other aircraft, even close to the ground - all of which narrows your options if things go wrong.

Military is also pretty bad as I understand it. It needn't be, but there's some sense that the job is "supposed" to be dangerous, which maybe makes sense for front line infantry, but really not for the vast majority of military pilots - way too many of them die far from any enemy, as a result of somebody screwing up, just like in GA or commercial.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#205
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you can see a YT Shorts that a passenger inside the flight shot, it's actually much less stressful than I imagined: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/W12w7NkqGCM

you can right click a shorts video, copy the URL, and paste that to get the normal non-crippled YouTube player https://youtu.be/W12w7NkqGCM

And you can install Vinegar and it’ll remove YouTube’s custom player, leaving you with the system’s.

https://apps.apple.com/au/app/vinegar-tube-cleaner/id1591303...

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#206
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You guys have wallets? Seems like the only possession you’d really need to do anything useful is your phone. I wouldn't want to be stuck away from home on a flight without some physical ID. Also don't want to completely rely on Apple Pay to buy anything (not to mention that some stores still don't take Apple Pay).

First of all, contrary to popular belief you don’t need physical ID at airports, you can go through another process to have your identity verified, it takes longer but it’s trivial. Second, any place that doesnt take Apple Pay is not a place you should do business at. Even lowly kiosks and vending machines accept Apple Pay now. The places that are NOT accepting Apple Pay are a red flag, they are doing something nefar…

[deleted]

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#207
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, no. My medications in my carry-on, without which I will have serious cardiac issues, are not related to the problem or "evidence". Agree it is a stupid policy. As long as there is no fire, at least let people grab their carry-ons.

That’s a good point! I’d be genuinely shocked if the policy didn’t account for a way to solve that.

Yeah my point is, there are a whole lot of other things people tend to have in their carry-ons that are critical for their health. CPAP machines, CGMs, knee braces, allergy-specific emergency food, adult diapers, insulin, epi pens, the list goes on.

If there is actually an imminent threat to life, such as a fire, of course all of these things should be left behind. But I'm of the opinion that in no event should anyone's health be compromised in the name of a blanket policy to collect "evidence".

In short:

save lives >> protect health >> collect evidence

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#208
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delta and Hawaiian are the two US operators. Hawaiian loves it, and is struggling to replace it. They use them for island-hopping. Modern airliners don't do well in this use case — modern engines have been engineered to tight tolerances to extract fuel economy, and their thermal designs rely on the cold air at cruise altitude to keep them healthy. Island hops are too short and too low for that to hold. The engines on…

The Hawaiian Islands are sort of an interesting case. Island hopping is short for jets (and a lot of people don't really like flying small props). But they're really too far apart for a ferry service between the major islands; it was tried at one point but went out of business.

I think the aversion to props is a North American thing in particular. Which doesn't help Hawaiian but for Europeans it's completely normal for small hops to be in a mid-size turbo-prop (these are still jet engines, they're just spinning a propeller instead of shoving hot gas out of the back to go faster) aircraft. Sure, it's not necessarily as comfortable as an A380, but you're not stuck there for hours.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#209
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely an unfortunate policy but isn’t it possible (at least in some cases) that doing so would taint the evidence of a problem that put hundreds of people at risk?

Uh, no. My medications in my carry-on, without which I will have serious cardiac issues, are not related to the problem or "evidence". Agree it is a stupid policy. As long as there is no fire, at least let people grab their carry-ons.

The remedy would be to have a rapid replacement of all your belongings.

Re: Delta flight lands in Charlotte without front landing gear

#210
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a good point! I’d be genuinely shocked if the policy didn’t account for a way to solve that.

Yeah my point is, there are a whole lot of other things people tend to have in their carry-ons that are critical for their health. CPAP machines, CGMs, knee braces, allergy-specific emergency food, adult diapers, insulin, epi pens, the list goes on. If there is actually an imminent threat to life, such as a fire, of course all of these things should be left behind. But I'm of the opinion that in no event should anyon…

As a general heuristic, I’ve found that people who create policies in a specialized field of expertise tend to think through those policies a whole lot more than internet commentators like myself do.

Especially when those policies will obviously piss off a bunch of people, I can either assume those people who spend decades thinking about X don’t know what they’re doing, or I can say “hey, I probably know way less than they do.” That doesn’t mean I don’t inquire/don’t question, but I think jumping from an unattributed off-hand remark in a CBS article to “FAA is dumb and they’d have let me die on the tarmac” deserves some skepticism too.

I am genuinely curious about what exactly this policy is, why it exists, and how they handle cases like yours. I don’t think “assume the people who investigate aviation incidents aren’t aware there might be medicine onboard” is a good starting point for that type of inquiry.

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