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Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

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Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#81

Post by johnfn »

rainonmoon wrote: post #75
johnfn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something wrong with talking about the problems associated with intelligence? They certainly exist and I think most intelligent people are familiar with them - but whenever I see them brought up they get casually brushed off with comments such as yours. I can't see how they're categorically different than any other set of problems.

Those aren't problems with intelligence, they're "problems" (insofar as they are problems, debatable) with things like social anxiety, inability or unwillingness to read social cues, superiority complexes (or inferiority complexes) etc. None of these are intrinsic to having an enormous capacity to learn, as multitudes of smart and charismatic people will attest. Part of this is also a matter of self-perception. Hey,…

You really don't think there's a single problem that might arise when someone were to have a large capacity for learning? I mean, sure, perhaps these problems aren't unique to people with higher intelligence. And perhaps they're correlated with other parameters, like social anxiety, etc. But surely becoming more intelligent can exacerbate these types of problems, no?

I still find the behavior odd. If someone says "I feel awkward around people because I'm short" no one responds with "that's not a problem with being short, that's just social anxiety". But when someone says "I feel awkward around people because I'm smart" suddenly everyone has an issue.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#82

Post by yamazakiwi »

oceanplexian wrote: post #44
glonq wrote: post #14

One of the reasons why I don't drink is that I like being me . Specifically... - I like who I am when I'm sober, and don't expect that I would like 'drunk me'. - I like being in full control over what I experience and how I experience it. - I also enjoy remembering (and not regretting) those experiences.

> I like being in full control over what I experience and how I experience it. I would argue you like the illusion of being in control, not that you are actually in control of anything. Some of the greatest decisions of my life were made after a few drinks (Such as booking flights to other countries, hooking up with people, making lifelong friends). Sometimes our rational, thinking minds aren't as smart as they think…

Yes, and there is also a distinct difference of self control between a buzzed/drunk experience, and one where you are absolutely annihilated.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#83

Post by OkayPhysicist »

_yb2s wrote: post #32
shortcake27 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I don’t think it’s that deep. I take drugs because it feels good and I have a good time, so the risks are worth it. I have zero interest maximising my lifespan at the expense of enjoyment. I’ll never understand why the general population is so hell-bent on preventing people from enjoying their own life.

Alcohol and other drugs feel good and allow you to have a good time by allowing you to escape negative emotional experiences and just enjoy the moment: fear, social anxiety, trauma. Without those negative feelings, you would already feel good, and the alcohol would lose it's appeal.

You're confusing "drinking as a coping mechanism" and "drinking for recreation". You know what rich college students don't have a lot of? "fear, social anxiety, and trauma". Know what they do a lot of? booze, sex, and drugs. You show me the most content, meditation-and-philosophizing-on-a-Friday-night person, and I'll show you someone who could be having an even better time on MDMA.

Booze, sex, and drugs are just life's cheat codes for giving you more dopamine. The person with fear is the one who is so terrified of judgement by society, too betrothed to the idea that they'd be sinning to actually enjoy themselves, that they deny themselves extremely fun experiences.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#84

Post by dannyobrien »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #5

Call me crazy, but as a highly analytical person that has spent 70% of my waking hours in the last five years working on something technical, my social skills are best when I'm hungover. The logical analytical side of me is diminished and I am much more "normal". I have a much higher rate of success on dates with women when I have a really bad hang over and then a few drinks. It does feel like a lobotomy, and that's…

There was a whole subreddit trying to explore why the people in it felt more comfortable and effective when hungover. Someone else may have the link -- with the API locked down, my usual app, Apollo, to find things like this on Reddit no longer works, and Google assumes I want a hangover cure for the search terms I tried.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#85

Post by dannyobrien »

dannyobrien wrote: post #84
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #5

Call me crazy, but as a highly analytical person that has spent 70% of my waking hours in the last five years working on something technical, my social skills are best when I'm hungover. The logical analytical side of me is diminished and I am much more "normal". I have a much higher rate of success on dates with women when I have a really bad hang over and then a few drinks. It does feel like a lobotomy, and that's…

There was a whole subreddit trying to explore why the people in it felt more comfortable and effective when hungover. Someone else may have the link -- with the API locked down, my usual app, Apollo, to find things like this on Reddit no longer works, and Google assumes I want a hangover cure for the search terms I tried.

Aha! The answer was further down in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#86

Post by rpastuszak »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #5

Call me crazy, but as a highly analytical person that has spent 70% of my waking hours in the last five years working on something technical, my social skills are best when I'm hungover. The logical analytical side of me is diminished and I am much more "normal". I have a much higher rate of success on dates with women when I have a really bad hang over and then a few drinks. It does feel like a lobotomy, and that's…

> alcohol removes that to a large degree

Sounds like a crutch. What you describe here is a fairly common response by people suffering from social anxiety.

I’m not implying that’s you, but it seems like you have the capacity to act the same way without booze so it might be worth to observe how and what you feel when that happens.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#87

Post by vorpalhex »

oceanplexian wrote: post #44
glonq wrote: post #14

One of the reasons why I don't drink is that I like being me . Specifically... - I like who I am when I'm sober, and don't expect that I would like 'drunk me'. - I like being in full control over what I experience and how I experience it. - I also enjoy remembering (and not regretting) those experiences.

> I like being in full control over what I experience and how I experience it. I would argue you like the illusion of being in control, not that you are actually in control of anything. Some of the greatest decisions of my life were made after a few drinks (Such as booking flights to other countries, hooking up with people, making lifelong friends). Sometimes our rational, thinking minds aren't as smart as they think…

To add, your subconcious mind seems to be more in the drivers seat in many situations, variations of drunkenness and hungover among them.

It's worth calling out that meditation can (sometimes, depending on the form) lead to a similar headspace.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#88

Post by t09i209ba893 »

oceanplexian wrote: post #44
glonq wrote: post #14

One of the reasons why I don't drink is that I like being me . Specifically... - I like who I am when I'm sober, and don't expect that I would like 'drunk me'. - I like being in full control over what I experience and how I experience it. - I also enjoy remembering (and not regretting) those experiences.

> I like being in full control over what I experience and how I experience it. I would argue you like the illusion of being in control, not that you are actually in control of anything. Some of the greatest decisions of my life were made after a few drinks (Such as booking flights to other countries, hooking up with people, making lifelong friends). Sometimes our rational, thinking minds aren't as smart as they think…

>I would argue you like the illusion of being in control, not that you are actually in control of anything.

Could you elaborate about not how you aren't really any more in control when sober? I feel that you're making an interesting argument, but I don't really share your perspective well enough to understand what you mean.

My aversion to alcohol largely comes from wanting my best judgement intact in order to better survive complex situations. When you talk about the positives of taking more risks, my immediate response is that you should learn to take more risks when sober, rather than dulling yourself so you blindly stumble into them. But I also think I'm not fully appreciating your point.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#89

Post by yamazakiwi »

Quekid5 wrote: post #33
glonq wrote: post #14

One of the reasons why I don't drink is that I like being me . Specifically... - I like who I am when I'm sober, and don't expect that I would like 'drunk me'. - I like being in full control over what I experience and how I experience it. - I also enjoy remembering (and not regretting) those experiences.

This meant with NO JUDGMENT WHATSOEVER, but I'm curious: > ... and don't expect that I would like 'drunk me'. Have you ever tried being drunk? I wouldn't recommend it if you're fine the way you are, but OTOH, I think people don't actually understand unless they've tried it. (I know that's kind of shitty, but ... that's life.)

Most people I know that say the whole "I like being in control" have only drank a few times (maybe bad experiences) but like the idea of not drinking so they promote this narrative in their head. It's an excuse so they can compartmentalize drinking into the "Now I don't have to care about this because it's bad for my physical health anyway" box.

Really it's just an easy excuse that doesn't need to be true because the fact remains that this person doesn't want to be a person who drinks and most won't question it.

It's also possible they get drunk quite easily.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#90

Post by toolz »

johnfn wrote: post #77
toolz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could intellect, or the ability to reason and understand things ever be a problem connecting socially? If it's a problem, then it's not intellect but rather a lack of something. I would suggest it's a lack of intellect, or the lack of understanding the people around you and being able to find common threads of interest. This isn't a problem of high intellect. Everyone has absolute loads of things in common with e…

> How could intellect, or the ability to reason and understand things ever be a problem connecting socially? Really? You don't think that intelligence has multiple components - raw intelligence, social intelligence, etc? And that you could in theory be good at one but not at the other?

Sure, but analytical intelligence surely doesn't get in the way of social intelligence I wouldn't think. So my statement holds in that case where you lack some type of intelligence.

I can't see any reason that someone who is really intelligent at technical things couldn't be just as socially intelligent. They probably just don't have as much practice with social environments when compared to technical problems.

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