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US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

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Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#631

Post by adamsmith143 »

prirun wrote: post #53
adamsmith143 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right they simultaneously believe the government is so incompetent they can't implement national healthcare that every other major nation on earth has figured out but are so competent they can get thousands of people to keep the most impactful secret in the history of mankind.

Not implementing national healthcare is a choice made to placate US corporations that contribute to politicians' campaigns. Like most "hard to solve" problems, it isn't a competency issue and isn't that hard to solve. The "problem" makes a lot of money for the right people, and it doesn't matter that it costs a lot of money for most people.

I'm talking about the constituents who actually believe that the reason not to adopt nationalized healthcare is because the gov would screw it up.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#632

Post by dgrin91 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #72
dgrin91 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they also disclose the location of all the nuclear missile silos in the US? I'm generally in agreement with a transparent government, but there must be some limits.

> Should they also disclose the location of all the nuclear missile silos in the US We do [1][2]. Better analogy might be disclosing the present location of all nuclear submarines. [1] https://uploads.fas.org/sites/4/NotebookMap.pdf [2] https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/location/a-u-s-nuclear-wea...

We don't. The first file is only very high level details (not specific locations). You still have no idea where the silos actually are

The second does not show any silo locations at all, it shows support infra for the silos (e.g. uranium mines)

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#633

Post by throwaway4aday »

justinclift wrote: post #555
throwaway4aday wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that would be the case for being presented with such a big discontinuity. Comparing it to the space race isn't accurate because while we hadn't achieved spaceflight before we had pretty much mastered atmospheric flight and were using turbojet engines and rocket powered planes to reach the stratosphere and even the mesosphere before the first man reached orbit. We were steadily going higher and higher so…

That being said and all, who knows what people could learn from say... the equivalent of the ashtrays, doorknobs, toilets (etc) in hypothetical alien vehicle(s). Wouldn't have to be the biggest challenges getting solved right away. Alien "mundane, old crap" would probably turn out pretty useful too. :D

Sorry, I think I still just have to disagree. Look at what a car or modern ship is made of. Nothing in it could be reproduced by a stone age civilization. They could maybe make a wheel out of wood which would be a technology they didn't have but honestly I'm inclined to believe the reason why pre-animal-husbandry civilizations didn't use the wheel is because it's mostly useless with nothing to pull it. You really need the wheel plus draft animals plus roads to actually do anything otherwise the terrain is just too rough for a person to pull or push a small cart very far and it's easier to just use a frame pack or basket on your head or back.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#634

Post by asdff »

moffkalast wrote: post #397
pc86 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you smoking where there's a clear line from "this thing crashed in the desert 50 years ago, we still know basically nothing about it" to everyone becoming an atheist and tax evader? Alien intelligence would be one of the most important discoveries of our species but you still have to wake up the next morning and go to work.

A real eye opener regarding this has been the ongoing war in Ukraine. For some reason I always had this picture of war being people constantly hiding in bunkers, looting and stealing in a sort of apocalyptic doomsday prepper way, whoever remains working in tank factories around the clock, that sort of thing. But no, their entire country is being blown up on a daily basis, apartments being hit by cruise missiles, stre…

>For some reason I always had this picture of war being people constantly hiding in bunkers, looting and stealing in a sort of apocalyptic doomsday prepper way, whoever remains working in tank factories around the clock, that sort of thing.

For cities actively under siege, that's exactly how it is though. Read about St. Petersburg or the battle of Vukovar.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#635

Post by asdff »

apocalyptic0n3 wrote: post #271
asdff wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think that knowledge of ETs would be very destabilizing for our society. Why go into work the next day if there are literal ETs visiting our planet? Why pay taxes? Why fight for generals who have lied to you? Why worship your god? Especially if its a truth that has been kept secret for so long, that would be particularly damning for the legitimacy of current governments of the world in the eyes of most people…

> I would think that knowledge of ETs would be very destabilizing for our society. Why go into work the next day if there are literal ETs visiting our planet? Why pay taxes? Why fight for generals who have lied to you? Why worship your god? Maybe I'm being naive, but unless there was an imminent invasion, I don't think it would change most lives at all in any significant way. You go to work because you need to eat an…

I'm sorry, but this would be an entire paradigm shift of how we see ourselves as a species. To think people would show up to work on monday I think is uncertain. We would be going from a millenia of human primacy on this planet to having these unknown apex predators lurking with unknown intentions. It's so completely unprecedented that it would be hard to imagine there wouldn't be social unrest, and major dissatisfaction with governments that have chosen to lie to the people they allegedly serve and represent. You might start to question who really runs the world, if some secret cabal had been able to keep the greatest secret of all time a secret for decades, and make decisions for the entire planet independent of our supposed democratic process.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#636

Post by reso »

runjake wrote: post #376
tptacek wrote: post #292

Ezra Klein just did a long interview with Leslie Kean (a popular author and Coast to Coast AM guest) about her article in "The Debrief" --- where it went, after the Washington Post wouldn't run it on her time schedule --- about David Grusch: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas... It does not make Kean and Grusch's claims sound a lot more credible. Some of Kean's sources are proponents of thin…

> she cites the now-discredited "Gimball Video". (sic) When/where/by whom was the Gimbal video discredited? I’m especially curious because I’m somewhat of an “expert” in the area (having worked on those sensor systems and seen tons of footage in a former life) and I think it’s a legitimate object of some sort [1]. Though I don’t believe it’s extraterrestrial. 1. Eg. The footage of a purported object speeding right ov…

The gimbal video gets its name from the strange way the object appears to rotate in the footage, what some people have claimed is “the craft reconfiguring itself”.

Ive seen convincing analyses that this rotation effect is the objects infrared shadow changing shape as it moves relative to the observer. The shape change is almost exactly what we would expect if we were observing a two engine plane, and one engine became occluded behind the body of the plane, hiding its infrared signature from the observer.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#637

Post by asdff »

pc86 wrote: post #285
asdff wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think that knowledge of ETs would be very destabilizing for our society. Why go into work the next day if there are literal ETs visiting our planet? Why pay taxes? Why fight for generals who have lied to you? Why worship your god? Especially if its a truth that has been kept secret for so long, that would be particularly damning for the legitimacy of current governments of the world in the eyes of most people…

What are you smoking where there's a clear line from "this thing crashed in the desert 50 years ago, we still know basically nothing about it" to everyone becoming an atheist and tax evader? Alien intelligence would be one of the most important discoveries of our species but you still have to wake up the next morning and go to work.

I'm not smoking anything. I'm merely speculating on what I think is a rather interesting hypothetical situation. It's generally interesting enough to sell millions of copies of books and thousands of movie tickets on similar subjects, after all. I just think being told that you've been lied to for decades, your elected leaders don't really call the shots but some classified group does unilaterally for the entire planet, there's some unknown creature potentially at the top of the food chain prowling the planet for the first time ever, and now you have to just suck it up and go back to flipping burgers to be rent burdened, is a really hard pill to swallow. For reference, we've gotten close to civil unrest in the past, when it became clear with the Pentagon Papers to the public that they were lied to about Vietnam being winnable and the scope of the conflict, and public opposition eventually forced the war to end. People were facing conscription and burning their draft cards. To think the working public today, as squeezed as they are by the elites, might face extraterrestrial threat and the greatest lie of all time and just clock in the next morning like nothing has changed, I think, is a bit of a gamble.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#638

Post by reso »

colanderman wrote: post #575
runjake wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> she cites the now-discredited "Gimball Video". (sic) When/where/by whom was the Gimbal video discredited? I’m especially curious because I’m somewhat of an “expert” in the area (having worked on those sensor systems and seen tons of footage in a former life) and I think it’s a legitimate object of some sort [1]. Though I don’t believe it’s extraterrestrial. 1. Eg. The footage of a purported object speeding right ov…

"Gimbal" is a speck of dust (or fly, or bird poo) on the lens of a gimbal-mounted heat-tracking camera. The entire video is predictable given the physics of such a device [1]. Not my idea, it's been around since this news first broke [2]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20019375 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15961848

Mick West’s analysis involves the gimbal lock idea, which I am convinced of, but he claims that the infrared shadow is the shape that a two engine plane gives off when it is at an angle, and one engine is occluded by the plane’s body. This seems more plausible to me than dust on the dome, which I imagine those sensors must have some way of handling or they would be useless.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#639

Post by gregw134 »

ickelbawd wrote: post #546
gregw134 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are whole ships powered by the magnus effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship

They’re sails in this configuration—nothing more. They harness existing force of wind. They get spun up and if they spin the right way they produce a force perpendicular to the wind. The magnus effect is a byproduct of laminar flow of fluid/air around a spinning object. Without laminar flow there is no force. So that is to say if you spin a sphere really fast and it’s hovering in air without gravity and without wind…

Did some more research, you seem to be right. Although the design I proposed could still be viable--when the wind is still the sphere would simply hover, and when the wind is blowing the sphere could move controllably, just not against the wind. At 10k feet there should be sufficient wind to control the sphere most of the time.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#640

Post by nobody9999 »

pohl wrote: post #620
nobody9999 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no way that could be Watergate-squared. The defining characteristic of Watergate was the audio tapes, so this has to be a reference to the "Bring some Cokes in, please" recording. I have to disagree. The defining characteristic of Watergate was the illegal (break-ins to steal political opponents' strategies and psychiatrists files) activities by a political organization (CREEP[0]) that were then covered up b…

Even under that different defining characteristic, the analogue would be the same modern event: the recording that gives lie to the cover-up narrative that he had used his psychic declassification superpowers.

>Even under that different defining characteristic, the analogue would be the same modern event: the recording that gives lie to the cover-up narrative that he had used his psychic declassification superpowers.

My apologies. I wasn't clear that I was responding to this:

   The defining characteristic of Watergate was the audio tapes, so this has to 
   be a reference to the "Bring some Cokes in, please" recording.
And not at all responding to this:

   There's no way that could be Watergate-squared.
I don't claim that the former president's legal issues are "Watergate-squared."

While there are some similarities between Watergate and the current situation, specifically a lack of ethics, enormous hubris and that it involves a (former) US President among other things, the cases are quite different and should be treated as such.

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