Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

androidauthority.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 221 posts

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#81

Post by palata »

jraph wrote: post #74
palata wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I am not completely sure I understand the point you are trying to make. Yes, devices that work with the mainline kernel are better supported. Both for Android and for Mobile Linux. > In which ways the distinction is useful? Because people not making the distinction tend to conclude "you should move to a Mobile Linux instead". Which is completely wrong: while there are active Mobile Linux projects, there are ac…

> Android, today, is completely functional without Google I know, I have used microG and all that stuff. My point is that the way they are produced, Android phones are not built to last / be kept up to date. I don't believe it's a problem with AOSP proper, I could run the latest Android on a 12 year old intel tablet (difficult with 1G of RAM, but still). But that's because it can run a mainline Linux kernel when no A…

> My point is that the way they are produced, Android phones are not built to last / be kept up to date.

Agreed, most Android phones are not built to last. Some are, though (I own a Fairphone, for instance). And some mainstream Android phones (talking Samsung and the likes) are maintained by custom ROMs like LineageOS. I mean GrapheneOS explicitly targets the Pixel line.

Also projects like PostmarketOS have been mainlining many phones, I think. I would guess that this also benefits Android?

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#82

Post by jraph »

palata wrote: post #80
jraph wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But parent was talking about a comparison with running a Linux mobile distro on a PinePhone But the comparison works. No mobile linux distro adds hoops to jump through. Of course (Almost?) nobody thinks that mobile linux is as convenient / usable as Android right know. For many of us it's about developing an ecosystem that's truly open source / that does not rely on Google. > But again, I think dropping support for…

> But the comparison works. No mobile linux distro adds hoops to jump through. Right. Sounds a bit pedantic to me, but okay :). I guess my point is that AOSP is open source, and in a much better shape for mobile than Mobile Linux. It is great to see work going on with Mobile Linux, and I find projects like PostmarketOS really cool. I just don't like how (some) Mobile Linux fans apparently seem to jump on every opport…

> Sounds a bit pedantic to me, but okay :).

Ah, the distinction is important indeed :-) The expectation is that things are improving.

I think many people in the mobile Linux do think Android is doomed, or at least is not an interesting path anymore for the long run. That's what drives them. Android works, but has some flaws this ecosystem can't see being avoided. Being stuck with the custom kernel and the proprietary drivers is one of them.

Personally, I'd be happy with an Android phone that can run free of proprietary drivers with the mainline kernel.

Thanks for the discussion :-)

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#83

Post by midoridensha »

quaintdev wrote: post #45
deng wrote: post #33

Has the author of this article ever used a custom ROM? There are so many free alternatives for these apps out there. If I remember correctly, LineageOS ships with their own version of Dialer/Messages anyway. I usually replace them with the versions of SimpleMobileTools, which work just fine. The main difficulty for custom ROMs are not these standard apps. The real issues are bootloaders which cannot be unlocked, undo…

> It's getting more and more difficult to use Android without a Google Account. Good that is how they shoot themselves in the foot. The more they do this, the more people will realise they need alternative and ditch Android.

And go where? Apple? How exactly is that any better in this regard? It's even more of a walled garden. If you mean custom ROMs, they have huge issues of their own making them a non-starter for 99.99% of the population.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#84

Post by ntp85 »

palata wrote: post #56

I disagree with this title. I use /e/ OS, and I couldn't care less about that news. I already use a custom SMS app, and I am not even sure if my system comes with the default dialer. There are many things Google can do to make like more difficult for custom ROMs, but I don't think this is one.

Ah, a fellow /e/ user. While I completely agree with you concerning dialer and SMS apps, the mentioned SafetyNet restrictions from the article could be causing problems in the future as many apps, especially banking apps, potentially rely on those.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#85

Post by rvense »

quaintdev wrote: post #45
deng wrote: post #33

Has the author of this article ever used a custom ROM? There are so many free alternatives for these apps out there. If I remember correctly, LineageOS ships with their own version of Dialer/Messages anyway. I usually replace them with the versions of SimpleMobileTools, which work just fine. The main difficulty for custom ROMs are not these standard apps. The real issues are bootloaders which cannot be unlocked, undo…

> It's getting more and more difficult to use Android without a Google Account. Good that is how they shoot themselves in the foot. The more they do this, the more people will realise they need alternative and ditch Android.

Just like they've ditched Windows?

People don't care about Android. They care about their apps. Some are fun, some are necessary. In my country, cash has been almost replaced by an app (just one), and it's getting harder to exist here without it (as I try to). That's just one example. I've heard of other places where compulsory national ID systems only exist as apps. And so on.

Unless those apps becomes available outside official app stores, switching is going to be de facto impossible, and people will take whatever shit Google and Apple roll out.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#86

Post by jraph »

palata wrote: post #81
jraph wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Android, today, is completely functional without Google I know, I have used microG and all that stuff. My point is that the way they are produced, Android phones are not built to last / be kept up to date. I don't believe it's a problem with AOSP proper, I could run the latest Android on a 12 year old intel tablet (difficult with 1G of RAM, but still). But that's because it can run a mainline Linux kernel when no A…

> My point is that the way they are produced, Android phones are not built to last / be kept up to date. Agreed, most Android phones are not built to last. Some are, though (I own a Fairphone, for instance). And some mainstream Android phones (talking Samsung and the likes) are maintained by custom ROMs like LineageOS. I mean GrapheneOS explicitly targets the Pixel line. Also projects like PostmarketOS have been main…

Fairphone does make impressive efforts toward this direction indeed. Their push towards more ethical manufacturing is also great. I which their phone didn't rely on proprietary drivers.

> Also projects like PostmarketOS have been mainlining many phones

There's only so much they can do, but if they manage to mainline Android phones, that's obviously great news for their owners, including if they want to stay on Android because this probably eases porting new versions a lot.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#87

Post by cassepipe »

nirimda wrote: post #69
nickelpro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.9% of consumers do not care about this and are totally willing (and expect) to connect their phone to their Google/Apple account Not saying the grievance isn't valid, but don't fool yourself

99.9% of consumers probably have never heard about custom ROMs, and I'd reckon 99.9% of consumers who do hear about custom ROMs have boring old fashioned objections like "will it break my warranty" and "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and "I wonder what's on Netflix tonight/I think I shall be washing my hair". For the few people who distrust Google enough to install LineageOS or some such, they probably distrust Goog…

"What is Android ? Well you see, there are various operating systems out there. An operating system is the software that allows you to use your hardware. So for example you may be familiar with Windows, macOS or Linux..."

- Stopped listening 30 seconds ago

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#88

Post by sharikous »

rvense wrote: post #85
quaintdev wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's getting more and more difficult to use Android without a Google Account. Good that is how they shoot themselves in the foot. The more they do this, the more people will realise they need alternative and ditch Android.

Just like they've ditched Windows? People don't care about Android. They care about their apps. Some are fun, some are necessary. In my country, cash has been almost replaced by an app (just one), and it's getting harder to exist here without it (as I try to). That's just one example. I've heard of other places where compulsory national ID systems only exist as apps. And so on. Unless those apps becomes available out…

Where do you live?

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#89

Post by palata »

jraph wrote: post #77
palata wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever tried LineageOS, /e/OS, GrapheneOS or CalyxOS? Of course you need to choose a supported phone, but these days there are plenty. And those alternative ROMs are getting really, really good. I have been running /e/OS for two years and I can't tell you a single thing I cannot do because of that (maybe a banking app started crashing once, and after I updated it, it was fine?). The biggest thing really is that instead…

Yes, I have. I know all this. I also know that the phone I was using back then is discontinued from what I can read from the LineageOS website. Which should not happen for a 7 years old device. And in any case, I strongly believe I should not have to use proprietary drivers. > And maybe it takes a little bit longer to get a GPS fix (I'm talking a couple of minutes, sometimes). That's probably related to A-GPS. The mo…

> That's probably related to A-GPS.

Yes that's what I think, too. I use microG, and it's using the "Mozilla Location Service" (which could use some love, maybe?).

Also it's not bad, just a bit slower than Google phones (but Google is really good at tracking, so I expect their A-GPS to have better data, I suppose) :-).

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#90

Post by Arnt »

TT2048 wrote: post #79
nirimda wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.9% of consumers probably have never heard about custom ROMs, and I'd reckon 99.9% of consumers who do hear about custom ROMs have boring old fashioned objections like "will it break my warranty" and "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and "I wonder what's on Netflix tonight/I think I shall be washing my hair". For the few people who distrust Google enough to install LineageOS or some such, they probably distrust Goog…

I have been using GrapheneOS for a couple of years and I feel frustration about this announcement. At the same time, sounds like not much of a biggie, but I'd prefer the burden of updating the apps not to be on the GrapheneOS contributors. On the other hand, I can see Google's arguments and "plausible deniability" that this is not Embrace, Extend, Extinguish: really nobody expects them to "Don't be Evil" anymore, sec…

Those apps have been forked any number of times already, there are plenty of dialers the grapheneos maintainers can use.
Post reply on HN