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US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

thehill.com

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Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#581

Post by [deleted] »

colanderman wrote: post #575
runjake wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> she cites the now-discredited "Gimball Video". (sic) When/where/by whom was the Gimbal video discredited? I’m especially curious because I’m somewhat of an “expert” in the area (having worked on those sensor systems and seen tons of footage in a former life) and I think it’s a legitimate object of some sort [1]. Though I don’t believe it’s extraterrestrial. 1. Eg. The footage of a purported object speeding right ov…

"Gimbal" is a speck of dust (or fly, or bird poo) on the lens of a gimbal-mounted heat-tracking camera. The entire video is predictable given the physics of such a device [1]. Not my idea, it's been around since this news first broke [2]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20019375 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15961848

[deleted]

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#582

Post by bagels »

tptacek wrote: post #292

Ezra Klein just did a long interview with Leslie Kean (a popular author and Coast to Coast AM guest) about her article in "The Debrief" --- where it went, after the Washington Post wouldn't run it on her time schedule --- about David Grusch: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas... It does not make Kean and Grusch's claims sound a lot more credible. Some of Kean's sources are proponents of thin…

I think Rubio stopped pretty short of endorsing it or saying the claims are credible, but just talked about how people with clearance were coming to the committee to report similar kinds of claims.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#583

Post by revscat »

tptacek wrote: post #572
revscat wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People with direct access to such classified materials would not legally be able to divulge details and especially not publicly. It would be a fairly quick trip to prison. I believe this is no longer strictly true for UAP-related information [1]. Congress has gotten much more serious about offering legal protections to those who have knowledge about UAP programs. [1] https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ufo-whistl…

Whatever else those protections might mean, they apply only to disclosures made through official DoD channels, not to interviews given to book authors.

> In accordance with protocols, Grusch provided the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review at the Department of Defense with the information he intended to disclose to us. His on-the-record statements were all “cleared for open publication” on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us.

Source: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-re...

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#584

Post by revscat »

JohnBooty wrote: post #580
revscat wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False premise. > It's absolutely true that, if the USG were in possession of extraterrestrial technologic artifacts (ETA's, must credit me for this coinage), it would be illegal for people with firsthand knowledge to disclose them. This is not true. For people with knowledge of UAP or UAP-related programs Congress has instituted procedures for those people to come forward and be protected in doing so. Those mechanism…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that just gives people with UAP knowledge whistleblower protection when it comes to reporting those programs through designated channels. Whistleblower protection != the right to publicly disclose classified material

Unless cleared to do so by DoD, which he apparently was.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#585

Post by Zetice »

bagels wrote: post #582
tptacek wrote: post #292

Ezra Klein just did a long interview with Leslie Kean (a popular author and Coast to Coast AM guest) about her article in "The Debrief" --- where it went, after the Washington Post wouldn't run it on her time schedule --- about David Grusch: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas... It does not make Kean and Grusch's claims sound a lot more credible. Some of Kean's sources are proponents of thin…

I think Rubio stopped pretty short of endorsing it or saying the claims are credible, but just talked about how people with clearance were coming to the committee to report similar kinds of claims.

IMO this is a larger indictment of our clearance granting process than it is our handling of UFOs…

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#586

Post by int_19h »

midoridensha wrote: post #553
JohnBooty wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But lack of firsthand evidence of ETA's does not constitute evidence of the existence of ETA's I said this. So... yeah, agreed. The rest of this: I don't care, except that you have to work yourself into contortions to simultaneously argue that all firsthand reporting of ETA's has been stymied by legal threats from DoD Your logic is incorrect. First, the whistleblower protection is new. It hasn't been around very long…

>Personally I don't believe it's aliens. I find it incredibly unlikely that alien races would send crewed ships here and then be clumsy enough to crash them or get shot down. It's unlikely, but it's possible. Maybe the aliens are rather primitive technologically, and have weapons technology similar to cannons from sailing ships in the 1700s (and spacecraft technology otherwise resembling our early 1970s craft), but t…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken_%28short_st...

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#587

Post by int_19h »

tiahura wrote: post #417
kvetching wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"so you can't blame Rubio for indulging it." He's got access to a lot more than us. This isn't just some congressman indulging it for the lulz. It's so funny to see the mental gymnastics people here make to discredit some of our most elite intelligence officials. Even Rubio is having trouble believing it but he's now admitting to have talked to people with direct access to the program. Grusch is as credible as it get…

The mental gymnastics is believing little green men, capable of sidesteping special relativity, travel X lightyears just to fly around San Diego and occasionally crash somewhere in the desert.

Do we really have to assume FTL? Why couldn't the aliens be from, say, Europa?

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#588

Post by postmodest »

Loquebantur wrote: post #526
tashoecraft wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VFX artists react had a pretty good video where they're pretty sure the footage over the ocean is just a bird. The oddness is due to the camera optics and the vessel that's recording it traveling extremely fast.

Do you assume, US fighter pilots get stumped by birds often? I find it really remarkable how far behind the curve HN is on this topic. It's literally the nerdiest, most avant-garde topic of all. Yet here people behave like their own grandfathers. TheHill.com reports on Congress acting on the mounting evidence for ET craft crash retrieval programs illegally hidden from democratic oversight, people on HN discuss whethe…

> Do you assume, US fighter pilots get stumped by birds often?

Planes specifically have cockpit warnings because U.S. fighter pilots get confused by the difference between sky and sea.

Just because you're good at something doesn't make you an expert at everything or your experience is infallible.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#589

Post by JohnBooty »

Johnny555 wrote: post #514
nobody9999 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> think you have it backwards. I think anybody who is remotely interested in this topic would love for proof of aliens to come out. It's just such an extraordinary claim, that their skepticism demands extraordinary proof. Eyewitness reports and low-res grainy videos are just never going to be enough, no matter who they come from. And that's how it should be. If there is real proof of aliens, it will be on the front p…

I believe that there's very likely intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, there are ~300 billion stars in just in our galaxy, and the number of stars in the universe are uncountable, one estimate is 7 x 10^22. Not all have planets, of course, and even fewer have planets in what is believed to be a habitable zone. But still, it's just unfathomable that in billions of years across billions of trillions of star sys…

    But still, it's just unfathomable that in billions 
    of years across billions of trillions of star systems, 
    that only one developed intelligent life
Only a vanishingly small portion of them will develop advanced tools, much less explore the universe. We have some pretty intelligent non-human life here on earth, but it doesn't seem like squids, elephants, or dolphins are on an upward intelligence trajectory and seem unlikely to explore the galaxy (apologies to Douglas Adams w.r.t. dolphines)

It's also important IMO to understand that advanced intelligence is not an inevitable goal of evolution. Evolution only "cares" about survival. That can result in intelligent life, but it can just as often result in horseshoe crabs -- creatures of low intelligence that fill a niche perfectly and resiliently.

Intelligence is a really tough way to survive. You need a metabolically expensiv and fragile brain (or brains)

I'm a believer of the notion of "great filter(s)."

I think most civilizations on a path to interstellar travel have to pass through a nuclear fission phase (how do you build advanced stuff without discovering this?) and I think a great % of civilizations will end/cripple themselves during this phase via nuclear war. This will filter out a lot of civilizations.

The next challenging filter would be making serious efforts at exploring/colonizing/exploiting other planets and solar systems before exhausting their own home planet's resources or making it unlivable. The human race is definitely on pace to lose this race.

Re: US Congress doubles down on claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs

#590

Post by runald »

emmelaich wrote: post #563
TechBro8615 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not generally a fan of Mick West, particularly when he gets into specific debunkings of videos, because his argumentative framework depends on the same flawed approach as those he's debunking: he starts from the conclusion that the aliens are not here, and then claims any evidence offered against this conclusion is insufficient. He depends on the same fallacy as his opponents. The only difference is the conclusio…

> he starts from the conclusion that the aliens are not here I'd say assumption not conclusion. It sounds like a good assumption to me.

It's called circular reasoning. Conclusion cites the premises, which in turn the premises cite the conclusion. Evidence (or lack of) is used to prove it self. When you start with a false or circular premise, anything that follows is technically true. It's a powerful (bullshitting) tool that can be used to prove or disprove anything.
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